The Bible verses the Qur’an
~We do not serve the same God~
By: Odwar Abiero, Christian Pastor in Africa
Edited by Jack Heckathorne
I believe the Bible rather than the Qur’an because prophets in the Old Testament and apostle’s writings of the New Testament were no different in content even though their writings were not of the same period. Moses wrote five books of the Bible from 1500 BC and the New testament was written from 40-90 AD, but when you read the Bible, despite the differences, the writings remains the same eg: Psalms 119:105,2 Peter 1:19,2 Corinthians 6:17 and Genesis 1:2.
This shows that the prophets and apostles were inspired by the Holy Spirit as the Bible illustrates in the following texts: 2 Peter 1:9,Psalms 119:105,Romans 15:4,John 20:31,1 Corinthians 2:10,11,2 Peter 1:4,Psalms 119:11,1 John 2:14,Matt 4:4,1 Peter 2:2, Matt 22:29,Acts 17:10,11,John 7:17,Luke 11:28 and 1 John 1:7.
This is contrary to the Qur’an, because their apostles and prophets are not well understood as to where and when they got their call and message. Even their life history is not well known and this is why we cannot believe their Qur’an.
The Bible tells the full history of Jesus as we read in the Bible: Psalm 72:12,Isaiah 53:7,John 1:1-14,Isaiah 40:3,Titus 2:13,John 14:1-3,Acts 1:9,Acts 1:10,11,Rev 1:7,John 3:16, but the Qur’an tells differently, that Jesus is Issa which is not true. Even the family of Jesus Christ in the Bible is quite different with that in the the Qur’an. The Qur’an tells that the grandfather of Issa is Amram (Qur’an 66:12) the same Imram is Haroun’s brother which is contradicting.
John 19:25 is where we find the family of Jesus Christ clearly and the family of Jesus’s mother in the book of Mark 6:3-4. How did Haroun become the brother to Jesus’ mother (Mary) if there are1500 years between the birth of Amram, the father of Moses, and Miriam to the birth of Jesus Christ? This is marvelous.
In Numbers 26:59 Mary, Jesus mother, is coming from Jude, not from Amram the son of Levi (Matt 1:1). Jesus is son of David (Mark 10:47, Luke 1:27-32).
In the Bible the gospel was brought to the world by Jesus Christ while the Qur’an 19:33 and 61:6 claims that Issa taught gospel to nobody from nowhere. The Issa of Qur’an has no prophecy telling of his existence in this world. The Bible says that every eye will see Jesus in his second coming Rev 1:7 but the Qur’an says that Issa will appear at Syria in his second coming.
Qur’an 5:82 tells that the great Muslims are the enemy of Jews, why then, in the Qur’an 16:43 they were told that when they don’t understand the Qur’an they should go ask from Jews and Christians those who knew the word before them? Are the Jews and Christians the ones who are to teach the Muslims the Qur’an?
How did Issa, (supposedly Jesus) who is a Jew, manage to become their apostle while the Jews are their great enemy? I think that it might be that Qur’an was copied from the Bible. Nevertheless, the Bible warned us regarding the false prophets in (Ezekiel 13:3,6,7) and Jesus warned us of turning back to other gospels rather than Bible (Galatians 1:6.) Also, Paul warned of the false Jesus Christ who could be preached.
(2 Corinthians 11:4.)
Could I appeal to Muslims to read again the Qur’an and Bible that they may understand who Jesus is. God cannot allow a person to kill or to revenge but to forgive, it is only the devil that kills and takes revenge through people.
“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.” (John 8:44)
“Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.”
(Romans 12:19-21)
Otherwise they may feel that they are saved by GOD, but SATAN has deceived them.
The problem with islam is; that it does not have the Spirit
of YHWH nor the renewal in the Spirit of YHWH, for it is not accepting Yehoshuwa ha Moshiach as personal saviour thus…
muslims remain slaves to allah (the moongod)who is forgiving
according to the quran but CAN'T forgive(over 15 000 attacks
by muslims 9/11/2001-present).
Muslims (if they want to remain muslims) will be victims of the Anti-christ and be under his dictatorship, because the
devil is not forgiving and won't pardon the yearly ritual satan-stoning in Saudi Arabia.
Toda rabah YhM will return and take control.
I pray for my Muslim friends that they will see the light and turn towards Jesus Christ. If they would only see that Satan invented religion to keep man blind and as far from truth as possible.
My dear God Fear,
Why do Christian prayed to human Jesus not Almighty Creator ? Please proof to me one statement by Jesus asking anyone to pray to him.. Why did Yesus said the following words to satan?
Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'"
It is just a misunderstanding you have. Jesus was full humanity and fully God. He allowed many to worship him.
The reason Jesus said that, was because Satan was tempting him. (His humanity) Satan said I will give you all the kingdoms of earth if you'll just worship me (satan). Jesus replied with scripture in saying it is written…
You see Jesus showed men and women how to be in marriage. Jesus was fully submissive to the Father's will (how women should be to husbands) and fully caring loving, etc towards his bride (believers) the roll of the man.
Jesus is God. John 10:30 I and the Father are ONE
In John 14:8-17 Philip said Show us the father and we'll believe, But Jesus replied in verse 9, Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
Did you see that, Anyone who has seen me has SEEN THE FATHER! They are ONE, There is not 3 Gods, but One God.
God tells us in ways man can understand. God has three ways in which he works with man.
The Father is the Planner, whom we worship, also visible sitting on the throne in Heaven as "Light"
Son this is the visible part of God that you will see. He will be whom we bow down before and is fully God. This is why Jesus allowed himself to be worshiped because it's proper. All three are one God.
The Holy Spirit. This is the invisible part of God that works inside us. If you will, the Spirit of God. This lives inside each believer guiding and powering. This is also the very humble part of God, even the name of this part of God is only what it is, Holy Spirit
You see, in Revelation whom is it that is found worthy to unleash the judgments? The Lord Jesus Christ
Who is riding back to Earth with the Name "King of Kings and Lord of Lords" In Revelation? Jesus Christ
When Adam and Eve was kicked out of the Garden when they sinned. They tried to use their own works to cover themselves once they saw their nakedness. This is what religion does for man. Absolutely nothing. That is trying to be saved by your works.
Who came and took a lamb and killed it and made a complete covering for Adam and Eve? Jesus Christ! The Complete covering he made then represents his Salvation work on the cross. This is God doing the work for you for Salvation!
Every book in the bible echos this same message
God does the work (Jesus died and arose from the dead (victory over death)) this is payment for your sins.
Religion requires YOU do something to earn salvation. Man cannot gain righteousness as perfect as God's righteousness though man's works.
He must have Jesus. Jesus said There is no way to the father BUT BY HIM!
John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Read that over and over… let it sink in!
Christians do not pray to Jesus, Jesus taught we pray to the Father. You don't understand what Jesus is for. He is the great seal of the Father. Thus why when we pray to the Father, we end our prayers in His name, Jesus Christ. Satan was demanding to be called God and worshiped. Jesus replied with scripture.
By the way, the scripture also says,Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
Who was it exactly that gave Mohammad a different gospel than that of the bible again? You see Islam isn't a gospel (good news) at all. It's a false religion that demands you kill yourself for a false god, or that you do things that are not out of love.
With God, everything is love, but in Islam everything is based on hate. It's very simple thing to see.
Question: Have you ever wondered why so many of the religions of the world require YOU to die for a so called god? Ever wondered why that is? Perhaps satan wants you to die without becoming saved by Jesus?
With all due respect, your trying to call Jesus, God a liar. Your trying to call the bible a book of lies. Whatever you come up with, I can show how your false religion of satan (Islam) is dead wrong. It offers you no hope, no peace, incites you to murder and hate.
Question: Why is it so many Muslim countries hate Jews and Christians?
Here in America you take part of freedom and liberty that is similar to that of what Jesus brings. When was the last time you thought some crazy Jew or Christian was going to come and kill you? But I can show you a number or stories where Christian pastors have been killed in cold blood in broad daylight in Muslim countries.
I know your trying to show "kindness" with your speech, and I respect that. However, true Kindness is that of God in Heaven who's Son is Jesus the Christ, the true Messiah. Who laid down His life as payment for your sin.
The bible says ALL LIARS will go to hell, that all fornicators, all adulterers, all thieves have their place in the lake of fire.
Have you ever stolen anything? Anything?
Ever had sex before marriage? ever?
Ever did adultery?
Jesus said, Who ever looks at a women with lust in their heart has committed adultery with her in his heart. You see man looks on the outward person, but God looks right into our ugly hearts.
Jesus showed us how high God's standards are. He said if you have hated in your heart towards someone, it's as if you murdered them.
That's only a few of the commandments. How many have you broken? The bible says whoever tries to keep the WHOLE LAW but breaks just ONE part of it is guilty of breaking all of them. James 2:10
You see, you are not good enough to match God's standard of God.
Jesus is perfect!
Jesus paid the price for you. Knowing full well YOU could not pay the price.
Believe on Jesus now. John 3:16 and become saved. Released from the bondage of sin and satan.
THEN with the Holy Spirit apart of you inside you, you will be able to understand spiritual things.
YHWH haa haa. .
Tell me brother ,when YHWH first being used?
Why Jesus didn't cried for YHYW but Eli Eli before he was crucified?
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
arah, come to understand you are here for one reason. To hear the truth about Jesus…. I would tell you to look for truth…
Who was Jesus speaking to when he said the words you cited from John 8:44:
“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.” (John 8:44)
Please explain the relationship of these people to those who call themselves descendants of the circumcised sons of Abraham.
Well for one you need to look at this verse in context of what Jesus was talking about.
in verse
Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
then go to
Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
and…
Joh 8:49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
What Jesus is telling these people is that they are not following God they are following Satan. In this world you either follow Satan as your father or you follow God as your father.
Please read all of John Chapter 8 and you will clearly see the connection Jesus is making here. It's all about who you are allowing to lead your life. Jesus was telling these people they are not allowing God to lead their life but rather Satan to lead their life.
Over and over and over Jesus spoke of this. Either you are made spiritually alive "born again" by accepting Christ's work on the cross or you are spiritually dead. Which means your name is blotted out of the book of life. By being born again you are one of God's own. You are a member of his Royal Family. And as such he will discipline you. This is why 85% (more maybe?) of Christians today live in some stage of discipline because they are not doing what God has called them to do.
First and foremost. Study the bible by that I mean, Study under a good teacher (Pastor) One that teaches the bible correctly not just giving you lip service to make you feel good. (90% of Churches today are this way, nothing but lip service or worse)
But as for your question, taking one verse out of context you could make the bible say anything you want. You have to study verses in context.
On top of that, you should study in a way you can see the org. text and meanings. Like with e-sword and the Hebrew and Greek along with a King James or NIV, NASB translations are good starting points. The reason for having a few english translations is so that you might get a clear picture of a given verse, and it's very easy to do when you have the greek and hebrew.
Here is an example
Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill. (King James version)
In 1611 everyone knew what it was saying. But the correct translation would be Thou shalt not murder. The word "kill" is "râtsach" in hebrew that would be "murder". The NIV and NASB translate it correctly in modern English.
Jesus speaking about Muslims from the book of John 8:44.The relationship of these people who call themselves descendants of the circumcised sons of Abraham are from Abraham Azar (Qur’an 6:74 Suratul Al’An-Am) from the Qur’an and not Abraham Tera (Genesis 11:26) from the Bible.
Muslims is anyone of the Islam religion. I think you are referring to Arabs. However Jesus paid for everyone's sins, so to single out one group of people and not others would be in error.
GJCN Response
After Jesus had spoken to the believing Jews (vs 31-32) (many had believed on him vs 30) the unbelieving Jews answered back and said they were Abraham’s seed too so why weren’t they saved. They believed that because they were descendants of Abraham they would not need to believe in a man and that their religion was enough. Jesus said he would make them free but they thought they were already free.
Jesus was speaking here specifically to the unbelieving religious Jews, i.e. the scribes and Pharisees. (vs 3). In verse 37 Jesus says: “I know that ye are Abraham’s seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.” He indicates again that they are unbelievers in vs 45: “And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.” This indicates that they were non-believers. But in effect, Jesus was speaking to all religious people of all time who reject him as the Son of God when he mentioned “your father the devil.” in vs 44.
Religion is man’s system of trying to earn salvation by performing good works and Christianity is the non meritorious act of faith in Jesus Christ, who did the work of salvation on the cross. JH
What is the language Mr.Kylie Batt.Please translate it in English couse i would like know what do you mean.
GJCN Response
After Jesus had spoken to the believing Jews (vs 31-32) (many had believed on him vs 30) the unbelieving Jews answered back and said they were Abraham’s seed too so why weren’t they saved. They believed that because they were descendants of Abraham they would not need to believe in a man and that their religion was enough. Jesus said he would make them free but they thought they were already free.
Jesus was speaking here specifically to the unbelieving religious Jews, i.e. the scribes and Pharisees. (vs 3). In verse 37 Jesus says: “I know that ye are Abraham’s seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.” He indicates again that they are unbelievers in vs 45: “And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.” This indicates that they were non-believers. But in effect, Jesus was speaking to all religious people of all time who reject him as the Son of God when he mentioned “your father the devil.” in vs 44.
Religion is man’s system of trying to earn salvation by performing good works and Christianity is the non meritorious act of faith in Jesus Christ, who did the work of salvation on the cross. JH
Who was Jesus speaking to when he said the words you cited from John 8:44:
“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.” (John 8:44)
Please explain the relationship of these people to those who call themselves descendants of the circumcised sons of Abraham.
People need the transforming of the renewing of God’s Spirit
after receiving Christ as Lord and Savior because the great
deceiver will lead many astray in many ways. the anti-christ
will go against all religion and try to abolish it all and
replace it by his own personal worship.only the ones who are
really part of the Qahal YHWH will endure till the end
(dead or harvest/resurrection).
No “pneuma anakainosis” results in stagnancy.
This the problem with christianity in general
and in particular with the other world religions).
You can’t go around the Qahal YHWH.
christian denominations won’t suffice.
Greetings brothers and sisters in humanity,( all of you are not my related brothers/sisters)
I have just had a cursory view of your views and what interest me are 2 comments
1. The often stated discrepancy regarding Haroun.The Quran is in Arabic a language related to Aramaic.A brother and sister does not neccesarily means physically related.Haroun and Mariam (Aaron and Mary ) are of the same lineage.The same goes for the word 'son' in Hebrew.Those that did good deeds are considered the son of the Father and it does not have the same literal meaning as Jesus being the son of Mary.In fact calling one a son , brother or fathers are marks of respect.The problem with present Bible is it was translated from Hebrew/Aramaic to Greek to Latin and to English/French etc.Much nuances have been lost along the way.
2.Do Muslims hate all Jews?
Quran5:82
You, O Muhammad (s), will truly find the most hostile of people to those who believe to be the Jews and the idolaters, of Mecca, because of the intensity of their disbelief, ignorance and utter preoccupation with following whims; and you will truly find the nearest of them in love to those who believe to be those who say ‘Verily, we are Christians’; that, nearness of theirs in love to the believers is, because some of them are riests, scholars, and monks, devout worshippers, and because they are not disdainful, of following the truth, as the Jews and the Meccans are.
Please read the surah verbatim and you will understand which Jews and Meccans are considered hostile.
Ben,
Which came first? The Bible or Mohammad and the Quran? (I hope you know it's the Bible)
Do you know what Galatians 1:8 says about men receiving a different "gospel" than that of the bible?
Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
Now, if we are told that false teachers with false religions would come, and here you are trying to say your religion of islam which came from a fallen angel of satan and now trying to tell us its correct and the bible is dead wrong.
Sir. I believe for yourself you have many things to think about.
Greetings,
The phrase by Mr OBEIRO " We do not serve the same God is indeed interesting"
I am a Malay Muslim.I pray to ONE God, the Supreme,(God is ONE ),(the One Who is always sought at times of need,)
(He neither begets nor is born,)(Nor is there to Him any equivalent/partner/associate/son .”)
Those belief runs contrary to Pauline Christianity doctrine of Trinity.If you adhere to the latter, then we are not servants serving the same God.
Greetings Mr Christos ( King ?),
What is YHWH? Jewish encyclopedia defined it as attribute of God—Living and Subsisting.In Arabic it is Hayy ul Qayyum.In fact it is one of the greatest name of God depicting His attribute and is uttered 5 times daily by Muslims.By this practice, if one does not’ have’ the spirit ,then what does?
Moongod thing.
Arabs pagan or Muslims have the same vocabulary for God–that is Allah.Christian Arabs called God Allah.
Moongods are idols gods worshipped by Arab pagans and idolators and they called them Allah.When Islam came, all shrikh that is associating Supreme One God with others were banned.This include associating God with ‘son’ which is the worst kind of idolatory.Moon god,sungods Baal (storm god)statues were destroyed.So, the association of Islam with moongod is a blatant lie perpetrated by those who have vested interest in not telling the truth!!
Slave of Allah the Supreme One God.
As a Muslim I admit that I am powerless and submit to the authority of the Supreme Being,God( Deu-LATIN )Allah-Arabic,Gott -German,) by that I can be called a slave.BUT I am a slave with choices.I am not shackled with an in born conscience of a sinner just because my “grandfather” Adam made that mistake.I have a choice to be an obedient or a rebellious servant and what I chose to be will determine whether I go to paradise or hell.No one can atone for my sins or take credit for my good deeds for I am myself responsible and accountable .Fair
is it not?
Ritual stoning of devil
It is part of the rituals of pilgrimage to Mecca to remember what Hagar wife of Prophet Abraham (pbuh )did to the devil, the rebellious and cocky being that is anti Adam,Noah, Abraham Moses, Jesus and Muhammad ( peace be upon them all )
Thank You
Mr. Othman
-The jewish encyclopedia gives only a description of YHWH.
jews don’t dare to pronounce the Name.
-also; an attribute is not a name.
-uttering the name of the God does not mean a thing.
even unbelievers can do it. Faith is required.
-The indwelling of the YHWH Ruach is far more important.
-allah. elohim and God are all titles.
if allah is the name than it refers to the moongod.
-The moongod-cult is still around in the form of animism.
-quran contains God limitations because if God can’t have a son than He is not YHWH El Shaddai.
-Latin for God is Deo, Deus is portuguese.
-jews want to be servants of elohim, muslims want to be slaves of allah, christians want to be “soulmates” with Holy Spirit(wrong frequency), friends with Jesus and a child of God.
The real believer wants to be part of the Qahal YHWH,
which is more than friend, child or son/daughter.
-Everybody is born in sin and needs salvation, you can not earn your salvation. only YHWH through Yehoshuwa ha Moschiach took care of the problem by substitutional
atonement in life, death and resurrection.
-One needs the YHWH Ruach and its indwelling otherwise
the devil will fool you for sure.
-real religion is rare probably; 6 billion people are
animists, the rest are believers, real believers?
Mr. Othman
Christos is not King in english
although Christ is the King of Kings.
YHWH is most likely Yahweh the name of God
El Abrahim, El Yakov, El Yitzak.
sole oneness, unity, dualism, family, trinity and
multiple gods are all theories falling short to describe the Supreme being of YHWH.
All our relations are derived of the divine designs
of YHWH, thus earthly father-son relationship is just
an imperfect reflection of something greater.
Many people put interpretational restriction on YHWH
(jews, christians and muslims alike).
Mr Christos ,
" Quran has limitations because if GOD can't have a son he is not God? "
Sorry if this offensive but if God can have a son then he can also have father,grandfather and great grandfather……then who creates who? What's the difference between man and god?
Anyway, I respect your stand I thank GJCN for allowing me to post comments clarifying things which should be clarified.
Thank You
Mr. Othman,
Quran has limitations if God can not have a son for
than God would not be Almighty.
YHWH is the ONLY Creator, man is created by YHWH so
every thing human is easy to do for the Almighty YHWH,
it does not imply He will do all human things;
He can lie, He can change, He can vary, but simply won’t.
YHWH was not created, so He has no father, grand-father or
great grandfather. (mormons believe that God evolved from
human to god which is incorrect).
Humans are trinitarian,
YHWH is not, but multi-manifestational.
Greetings,
“,,,does not imply He will do all human things..”
To us Muslims, Quran that is God’s words tells us that God does not beget
nor is He begotten.In this case He does not imply but expressly Say that
He does not have a son.Having a son and being born are human things.
God has 99 attributes which Hay ul Qayyum
( The living and Subsisting ) is one of them.
The living and Subsisting is defined as YHWH in the Jewish Encyclopedia .
I respect your stand and I have made my stand.
Thank You.
Greetings,
YHWH is not begotten,
still all things derive from HIM,
When He appeared to Abram in the Nephesh-form He was still
omni-present as Yah, Yehoshuwa, Ruach, Kabod and Malak,
and meeting Abram just like that; as one person meets another person.
Also He manifested Himself in Yeshua from conception till
death during 33+ years, which was done in the human way
except for the conception, having a son and being born
came from YHWH; the distancing is too far in islam and
judaism, and still it is written “I thought you would call
Me my Father” Yirmeyahoo 3:19.
Also YhM was before Abram and is still alive in YHWH
All other people are dead and gone.
-the living and subsisting attribute in the quran and in the jewish encyclopedia is a description defining YHWH
but it is not about the NAME which is most likely Yahweh;
The I am Who I am.
-Everyone is free to believe what he/she wants,
every human being is personal responsible and will be
accountable to YHWH for what he/she believes.
I respect your stand too and thank you for your input.
I hope and pray that the Kabod YHWH will enlighten you.
Pax
General post scriptum;
Even if parts of quran would be gods word through Gabriel
to muhammed than it’s still descriptive and depends on the
interpretation; he does not expressively say that he has not a son, like “god does not beget nor is he begotten”
along a spiritual exegesis this would mean that He does not use human sexuality (procreation), so the immaculate conception is in line with that.
Yehoshuwa ha Moshiach says “I am the Way the Truth and the
Life, no one comes to the Father(Yah)but by me”.
Every one is free to try another way.
Sir,
Beget is defined as ”father of ”
begotten as ”being born ”
It is explicit and clear.
To us Muslims, God the Creator of 52 billion galaxies, the Heavens and earths and those in between dose not want and does not need to procreate either sexually or spiritually.For He is the Living and Subsisting and does not want son, partners nor associates.Procreation itself is a function of the created.He is the Creator the Supreme Essence.HE deplored
the Meccan Jews for claiming that Uzair is His son and He addresses Jesus as son of Mary.
Those are our beliefs but we do not expect others to believe what we believed.Our discussion has been carried out in a most amiable manner and let us keep it that way.In discussing with People of the Book , we Muslims are told to do it as polite as possible.
Thank You.
e mail- [email protected]
Kuala Lumpur
Malaysia.
Mr. Othman.
I said that we do not serve the same God because, Qur’an said that ALLAH has got ninety-nine names “THE OLD SERPENT’ is among of is names, right?? But how Bible tells us about that name, Revelation: 20:2 and he laid hold of the Dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him a thousands years.
Qur’an 16:42 tells that when they don’t understand the Qur’an they should go ask from Jews and Christian those knew the word before them. What do you think about the verse Mr. Othman??
Mr. Othman,
you confuse human definitions with YHWH’s
definitions and the wrong interpretations there of by
the indoctrination and tradition of religions.
As said before without the indwelling, revelation and guidance of YHWH Ruach you won’t be able to deduct Bible
and other spiritual scriptures.
As a human being i respect all human/religious creeds,
but of course i don’t agree with them as a believer.
the equations made in various scriptures are by human
valuation and are full of God limitations and God restrictions, everybody is free to believe what he/she wants, it does not matter much because the anti-christ
will abolish all religions and replace them with his personal cult. YHWH in form of Yehoshuwa ha Moschiach will end his reign and establish the Millennium Kingdom.
Mr Odwar,
16:42 {They are } those who endured patiently and upon their
Lord relied.
Tafsir
They are those who endure, the harm inflicted by the idolators and (endure ) the emigration in order to make manifest the religion, and put their trust in their Lord , so that He provides for them whence they do not reckon.
Mr Odwar,
Any words on asking the Jews and Christians about the Quran ? If you can read Arabic , or a translation , you will understand its meanings .
Of course, serpent is not one of God’s 99 attributes.God is the Creator of the sun that has its own orbit and other creatures including the serpent and some serpent- minded humans.
Aa explained earlier,Allah/Elahowim/Elah is Arabic/Aramic/Hebrew (SEMITIC ) for God.If your hellinistic (Greek )(NON SEMITIC ) converted and translated from Hebrew bible says God is serpent,may I suggest you do something about that blasphemy in that bible!
Thank You.
Ben Othman
Mr Christos,
‘”As a human being i respect all human/religious creeds ”
It’s mutually acceptable.
Quran :Sajadah :25 )
Indeed your Lord will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that over which they used to differ (in matters of beliefs in religion )
serpent is not an attribute to allah in the quran,
but is an attribute to satan in the bible
The word blasphemy is far too easily used in religious circles; jews and muslims and oneness-christians call the trinity-theory a blasphemy, trinitarians call all other
god-theories blasphemies.
one should be more careful in this respect.
As stated before; all god descriptions are theories whether they are jewish, christian, muslim, hindu, buddhist or whatever -ism, due to human god restriction, god limitation and interpretations.
theories are not doctrines, so how can you apply blasphemy
on the interpretational differences?
blasphemy is willingly conciously acting against YHWH.
It is not impardonable either when the people repent of
this sin (conversion through the Ruach in Yehoshuwa).
Well Moses asked God to show himself. But God could only show his back because if he had shown his face it would of killed his human body. I think this should sum up what God the father looks like. 😉
Yes,Othman.God is a creator of the sun but ALLAH who moslems bealive in it is not a God who creator of the sun.I said that ALLAH who is not a God has got ninenty-nine names and the OLD SERPENT or AL-MUQADDIM is among of it is names,translation of AL-MUQADDIM is old serpent but what Bible say about that name?? read Revelation 20:2.Other names of ALLAH are YA-QADIR,YA-MUQATADIR,AL-MU’AKAHKHIR,YA-MUQADDIM,YA-KARIM,YA-JALIL,AR-RAQIB,AL-MUJIB,YA-MUQIT,AL-HAFIZ,YA-HAFIZ,AL-JALIL,AL-HASIB,AL-ALI,YA-ALI,AL-KABIR,ASH-SHAKUR,AL-GHAFUR,YA-HALIM,AL-KHABIR,AL-LATIF,YA-ADL,YA-BASIR,YA-HAKI AM.My friend Othaman i like you that is why i tell you the truth and please don’t oppose what i am telling you.Jesus loves you Mr.Othaman and daily i pray for you.
Attribute (not a name) #66 Al-Muqaddim (he who promotes).
the real limiting attributes #6 Al-Azeez, #12 Al-Ghafaar,
#32 Al-Ghfoor # Al-Waaris.
Sorry, i got distracted; #92 Al-Waaris.
Mr Odwar,
Ilove Christians that is why I am communicating in this site, to provide them with
correct information on Islam and Muslims.Your statement” please don’t oppose what i am telling you ‘smacks of the evangelical style that could be applied elsewhere and on
somebody else.
I would refer man of religion like yourself to be more meticulous
with the “facts” on Islam.If you want, there are numerous information
in the net. You can get answers to your latest questions.There are topics
on theology and more interestingly on Islamic economics which is my area of specialization.Feel fee to ask.
Interesting. Why does a Muslim care what is going on a Christian website?
Muslims believe Christians are wrong, and if we don't convert what is it your supposed to do?
Mr Christos,
To Muslims,the Quran is a Book of facts,not theories
nor doctrines.It contains facts on God’s Essence.Blasphemies
are those things that are against those facts,
Qur'an 4:34
Yea, i thought so, it is fact that the Qur'an teaches to beat your wife if she doesn't obey.
Seems Muslims do a lot of beating if you don't obey. If you don't obey your husband, if you don't obey to convert to Islam…
You said you love Christians… Do you love Jews?
I would love to hear you say you love Christians and Jews. And then I will know the other verse of the Qur'an is true as well… the one about the ability to lie…
Christos.
I think that AL-MUTAKABBIR is means,he who promotes and not AL-MUQADDIM, I lost my book of translation.
Gentlemen,
AL-Muqaddim
The Expediter, the Promoter, the One who put things in their right places.He makes ahead what He wills and delays what He wills.
: Putting things in their right places is ensuring fairness, balance , justice, rights of all things. For example killing animals
not for food but for “game ‘ is unjust, unfair ,cruel for animals have as much rights to live as humans.
Al Mutakabbir
The Majestic, the One who is clear from the attributes of the creatures He created and from resembling them.
: Having progeny, son as claimed by Pauline Christians and daughters as claimed by pre Islamic Meccans are inappropriate and run counter
to this attribute of God.Hence, the blasphemies.Blasphemy includes resembling God with his other creations.
Mr Christos,
You are right,” blasphemy is willingly conciously acting against YHWH.”
To Muslims, YHWH/God is the One who Lives and Subsists-hayy ul Qayyum
When somebody draws similarities between a serpent and God, that is blasphemy!
Mr Odwar,
“Yes,Othman.God is a creator of the sun but ALLAH who moslems believe in it is not a God who creator of the sun”
Can you prove that your Pauline conceptualized God creates the sun the universe, the heavens , the earth?
By referring to one of the versions of Bibles in your hand can you show me the process of creation of the
universe, the stars, the sun being one of them , the planets and man?
If the Bible in your hand cannot prove or quote or inform and excused itself by saying that Solomon or anybody else
is quoted to have said it is not possible to know God’ secrets, then it is akin to running away from understanding God through
His creations.I am sure the original Bible that preceded the Quran had all the information.For a Book serves as guidance
to mankind and a database/store of information and knowledge.
The Quran is able to do so and wants us to study and understand His creations so as to fortify our faith in His Existence.
The Quran could counter the atheist’s stand that nature is self created.Can the present Bible do so?
Therefore, logically speaking when the Quran can explain all these universe creations phenomena while the Bible cannot or
irrationally refuse to do so then which authority should we refer to on creation of the sun? I would say , the Quran and
Muslims firmly believe it is the word of the One God,One Gott , one Deo, one Deus, One Allah, One Elohim One Elah,One Yehova.
It is the One God that creates the sun.
Thank You .Also thank you to website owner for letting this published.No malice intended for “lakum dinukum
waliya din” You and your beliefs , I and my belief.We both believe in God.
Mr.Othman.When you read Genesis chapter 1 and 2, Jehova/God is the sole creater of the world,is the one created a man by the soil,that is why the first created man called Adam,means from the soil.But ALLAH of the Qur'an created man our of stinking and noisy soil,which is contray to the above Yehova.The same ALLAH gave appostolic message to Mohammed S.W when they were in the cave with a single eye creacher (might be an old serpent).We should remember that Jehova is not considaring Mohammed S.W as an appostle.Therefore,for that case Jehova is not allah.Qur'an 9:30 says -Allah commanded Christians to be killed but Jehova blessing Christians. Qur'an 5:35 suratul Al-Maidah (means table) Allah commands Islams to fight for their religion that is why Iran,Iraq,Malasia,Somalia,Nigeria,Palestine and others are fighting against other religions and killing innocent people.I hope that Allah is glad of whatever is happening becouse it is a killer.How do you fill when the churches are put on fire and people are dying in your country Malasia??.
Jesus Christ was that which created. Jesus Christ was the "Word"… and when Jesus was born "the Word became flesh"
Mr.Odwar Abiero,
Attribute #8 Al-Mutakabbir means the elevated one.
i think you and mr. Othman are both wrong, the quran
does not compare god with a snake nor does the bible.
Ben Othman,
Progeny is too restrictive in the islamic exigesis,
resembling god to something is very limited in itself,
For no one has ever seen YHWH, the human mind is too limited to make a comparison, it is impossible to really
know all about the supreme being YHWH or about all his works,all the books in the world can not contain it all.
simularities made between gods & serpents are in hinduism,
not in judaism, christianity or islam.
Paul was based in judaism before becoming a christian,
both religions recognize the Beresheet statement that YHWH
created All things! stated as well in the Ketoovim.
Many people believe in One God, but so do the demons,
the most important thing is to born from the YHWH Ruach, otherwise one can not understand the spiritual things.
Ultimately it will be everyone’s personal responsibility
to really Believe and to Accept the indwelling of The Spirit and to act accordingly.
Gentlemen,
The human mind is too limited to think and visualize beyond his capacity .That is why he needs guidance, a Book from God.
Let’s think about these verses that show they come from the same Source.
Isiah 65:18 ( King James Version )
But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create (JERUSALEM ) a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
Quran Yunus (10:25 ) And Allah invites to the Home of Peace (DARUSALEM ) and guides whom He wills to a straight path
JERUSALEM (Hellinistic version ) = PARADISE
DARUSALEM (Semitic version )=PARADISE
caveat:
Lest,anyone thinks that Quran copies, there are plenty of evidence that it does not.The surah on creation of Heavens and earth and those connected with the sciences are a few.
Thank You.
Mohamad Halim Ben Othman.
Malaysia.
One problem
The Bible gives Jerusalem to the Jews
The Qur'an gives Jerusalem to the Muslims
Current Standing. Jerusalem belongs to the Jews. After 60 plus wars at incredible odds Israel, Jerusalem still stands with the Jews. This will NOT change just as the bible said it would be.
I never believed the Qur'an copies. I believe the Qur'an is the inspired word of SATAN, that so closely matches the "ideas" of the bible in order to appear Good. But the ideas are evil because they opposes the True God. The God of Israel.
The bible says that after the rebirth of Israel (1948) that any nation that goes against Israel will be destroyed. Genesis 12:3 says that God will curse them who curse Israel and bless them that bless Israel. (sure sounds like what's going on in the world does it not?)
Take a look around you. How do you NOT see this taking place?
Even here on GJCN, it's been posted how the Bible predicted the VERY day Israel would be reborn. How can you argue against that?
Why will you not see Islam for what it is and allow Jesus as God said in John 3:16 BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved!!!
God has his standards, how in the world do you think you can some how "earn" them? You can not "earn" heaven. Only Jesus Christ can give you pardon for your sins.
A book of God is not enough, one needs the conviction,
inspiration, guidance and revelation of the Spirit and its
gifts and workings through experience according to the Word.
Isaiah 65:18 is a prophecy and prediction.
Quran Yunus 10:25 is an invitation and general statement.
Both are not connected to paradise.
Jerusalem is not hellinistic, 'Ierushalaim is semetic.
One can only recognize spiritually things that are in accordance in Tenach,
New Testament and other scriptures through the Spirit.
> Respected Incharge,
> Assalamu Aalikum ,
> I am Humaira Nazeer from Muslim family and I have completed my all Islamic
> study from IslamicInstitution of Toba Tek Singh . Today I have visited your
> website.Its realy wonderful work.I have desire to become the part of your
> Organization . I am able to do translation work.If you have translation work
> this is my request kindly contact with me. I am able to do Translation and
> recording work in some Pakistani Languages.
> Our National Language is Urdu and some other Provinces Languages. I do
> Islamic Translation work in Low and proper rates in Urdu, Punjabi
> , Sindhi ,Saraikie ,Arabic to Urdu and English to urdu.I am also able to do
> Recording work.
> I see on your site that you have working on different Languages in different
> countries.
> Hopefuly you will Contact with me soon.
> Thanks.
>
> Humaira Nazeer
> Pakistan .
>
God Fear,
Does Bible say anything about God’s wrath on those committing injustice and sins? Does that bible say that no matter who, the Muslims or Bani Israel if they commit injustice {fasad ) they will be replaced by other people? Ever think why the Israelites wandered aimlessly in the Sinai for 40 years after Moses ?Ever think why the Bani Israel were evicted from Yerusalem twice–one by Babylonians and the other by the Romans and replaced by other people in Palestine-the Phoenicians and others.Ever think why the Turks in Palestine were replaced ?
Ever think that someday somebody will come again for the third time to inflict pain ,hardship on Bani Israel?I shudder at the mere thought of the pain and hardship to be inflicted on the people just because of the crimes of a few zionists.(But it is incumbent upon the majority to oust the criminal zionists ).I hope I will not live long enough to witness that terrible suffering and anguish.
Think man, a scripture is not just a dogmatic pontification forcing its readers to accept blindly .Al Quran exhort readers to think and contemplate the messages and their relevances in relationships of God-man,man-man amd man-GOD’s other creations and provide guidance.
And do not gloat over what is happening now.50 years is a very very short period in history.
Well, simply put, Israel as it stands is under God's discipline right now and has been though out the whole "Church Age".
Israel has not followed God nor has Israel accepted Jesus Christ. But the bible says that Israel would be reborn that happened in 1948. Over 60 wars have taken place. The first few it was basically farmers and normal men fighting for Israel.
As it is God is Protecting Israel. However that doesn't mean that Israel will "live in peace" or have "security" and all because Israel won't turn towards God. Like Islam the Jews follow a false Satan inspired man made religion. It's because they like Islam reject the true savior Jesus Christ.
Whats to come? A lot. The world right now is "under test". Genesis 12:3 says That anyone (nation or person) that curses Israel will be cursed And that any (nation or person) that blesses Israel will be blessed. By saying the world is under test, Satan will use anything to get you to curse Israel (going against God's Will) You will look at Israel and think all kind of hateful things, while I will look at Israel and understand what God is doing. You curse, I will bless.
You see it's all a matter of going for or against God. God has plans for Israel, If your cursing Israel right now, your going against what God said. If you bless her, your going for God and as it is, if your in a religion that hates Israel as a nation, that religion is not of the True God. But one made by Satan.
Israel will be attacked, and at times you (Islam) will think you have won and right at that time will be your demise. In other words God doesn't want you to be unsure, he's going to make very sure your against him before judgment day. That way ALL the people of the earth will be "without excuse" of why they hate God. Why they have rejected Jesus Christ, why they have turned against God in every way. It does not matter if you have been fooled by some religion. God said the truth would be preached in all nations.
Jesus Christ is the only way. John 3:16
50 years is a very short time, but you will see Israel being attacked by Russia and Iran (others included) and you will see Israel defended by God. Then you will know who's God is the true God of Heaven. Because at that time, Israel will be converted and will know who and what Jesus Christ is.
You may not believe the bible. But it has been 100% correct in predicting future events for over @ 2000 years. And it's now that you think in the last few that it will be wrong. I'm sorry Sir but the Truth of the matter is the Bible is becoming more and more evident now than it ever has been. (more and more predictions coming true)
My advice, take a deep breath, and think long and hard what your attitude towards God will be. What side of the line do you want to be on. Of course the world will hate Israel. The WHOLE would will hate Israel.
Jesus said the Gate and path to destruction is wide and easy to find, but the path and gate to God is narrow and not everyone will find it. Jesus said NO MAN will enter the kingdom of God but though HIM (Jesus Christ) and that NO other name on earth is given that you should be saved by.
Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the light. There is no other way. No other path to God. It's not something to be taken lightly, Jesus made many claims and had the power and credentials to back it up. You should take a long hard look at it before passing judgment because as it stands not one prediction that the bible has made has never not come true. That is a 100% record.
Let's not forget the Bible predicted the rebirth of Israel to the very day. It's a video here on GJCN by Grant Jeffery, check it out. Tell me how the Bible did that, Only by God could that of been done.
Mr Godfear,
Somehow I missed your previous posts but to save time let me focus on your latest one.
I am now taking a deep breath and yes, we Muslims never say we disbelieve the First and New testaments ENTIRELY.We believe in those verses that were not corrupted by human hands and we have the technique to verify which one is authentic and which one is not. That Jesus is God and atones for sins of mankind are beliefs we regard as corrupted by human hands.(Paul of Tasaurus ?)Because there are 24,000 manuscripts in the Bible, these human hands could not alter or corrupt all of them.Some genuine ones remained such as the prophecy of coming of Muhammad (pbuh ) in the Songs of Solomon.
Besides the Quran we have the Hadiths.The Hadiths are the sayings and actions of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh ) that complements and explains the verses in the Quran. It is from these hadiths that the creation of a state like Israel was prophesised and also the coming of Prophet Jesus (Pbuh )It is our belief that the Quran is the Last testament containing messages contained in the previous testaments and messages; Torah (Moses ), Zabur (David )Injil (Jesus ).Peace be upon all these Prophets .Therefore we are not at all surprised that the Injil(new Testament which is a continuation of the First Testament )predicted creation of Israel and it materialsed.
Thank You
Ben Othman,
This is Jesus the Christ. Christ means Messiah
This is the book of John Chapter 14:5-14 (Using the NIV) (see: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%… )
5Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."
8Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."
9Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. 12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
This IS Jesus claiming to be God. This is Jesus saying that NO MAN shall enter Heaven unless you accept Jesus Christ's work on the cross. No man can earn heaven. You do not have righteousness, God does. You are not sinless, Jesus was the sinless perfect lamb for our sins. Unless you accept that in your heart you will not enter God's kingdom. There is no other name on earth that man must believe other than that of Jesus Christ.
The Islam religion was written after the Bible. It was invented to control Arabs and guide them away from the true God. This is why so much of it is a bent and twisted version of things the bible says. This is why it denies Jesus Christ and everything Jesus Christ said. It's a religion to control and enslave men. Jesus Christ sets you free from sin and brings you into a personal relationship with God. (true meaning of Christian)
Ben Othman,
This is Jesus the Christ. Christ means Messiah
This is the book of John Chapter 14:5-14 (Using the NIV) (see: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%… )
5Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."
8Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."
9Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. 12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
This IS Jesus claiming to be God. This is Jesus saying that NO MAN shall enter Heaven unless you accept Jesus Christ's work on the cross. No man can earn heaven. You do not have righteousness, God does. You are not sinless, Jesus was the sinless perfect lamb for our sins. Unless you accept that in your heart you will not enter God's kingdom. There is no other name on earth that man must believe other than that of Jesus Christ.
The Islam religion was written after the Bible. It was invented to control Arabs and guide them away from the true God. This is why so much of it is a bent and twisted version of things the bible says. This is why it denies Jesus Christ and everything Jesus Christ said. It's a religion to control and enslave men. Jesus Christ sets you free from sin and brings you into a personal relationship with God. (true meaning of Christian)
Mr Odwar,
Your posts was also missed.
“How do you fill when the churches are put on fire and people are dying in your country Malasia”
Let me answer that first.Islam never condone destruction of any house of worship, killings of women and children even in times of war.If muslims do those things they are fasids and renegades and deserve punishment.Some ‘Assembly of God” churches were put on fire and some mosques were also vandalised.These were carried out by emotional characters greatly influnced by turn of events.
What is the turn of events?
The Malay Peninsular ( West Malaysia ) are populated by Malays who are staunch Muslims.The Eastern part of Malaysia are inhabited by Ibans and other natives who are Christians of various enominations but the majority are catholics and Assembly of God adherents.These
easterners have been calling God and Jesus” Allah”and this have been going on for ages.When a handful of them migrated in search of jobs in more prosperous west Malaysia, they carry the tradition of praying and calling Jesus “Allah”.This may seem odd amongst Christians worlwide and to the muslims this is unacceptable.To the muslims for the Christians to call Jesus “Allah” whereas majority of them worlwide do not, is a ploy by chritian misionaries to convert poor and misguided muslim youths to christianity.It happened in Indonesia and Malay muslims being more educated and pious do not want the same to happen in West Malaysia.
” why Iran,Iraq,Malasia,Somalia,Nigeria,Palestine and others are fighting against other religions and killing innocent people”
This statement is a general sweeping statement that that require hard facts and evidence from you, before I can answer it.
“Qur’an 9:30 says -Allah commanded Christians to be killed but Jehova blessing Christians. Qur’an 5:35 suratul Al-Maidah (means table) Allah commands Islams to …”
This is an often repeated verse taken out of context and not in accordance to historical perspectives.Get a Quran translation by
Abdullah Yusuf Ali in the internet and it will explain.
Thank You
Greetings,
Islam’s belief in Jesus (pbu
God has, by His decree, preserved the last representatives from both lines of Abraham for the establishment of His Kingdom. At the end of time, He will bring Imam al-Mahdi and Prophet Jesus together for the fulfillment of His plan.
We are told that Jesus will descend to the earth soon after the appearance of the Mahdi; he will join the Mahdi in establishing the Kingdom of God on earth; and he will pray behind Imam al-Mahdi. The true Christians will follow Jesus in accepting Imam al-Mahdi as the leader at the time and become Muslims.
Saltie Crocodile in NZ celeberating Kiwi All whites success in WCup June 27, 2010 at 4:22 am
The Second Coming of Sayyidna Isa (Jesus Christ)
Allah says in Holy Qur’an
And they made a move, and Allah made a move. And Allah is the best of those who make moves (3:54) When Allah said: ‘O Isa, I am to take you in full and raise you towards Myself, and cleanse you of those who disbelieve, and place those who follow you above those who disbelieve, upto the Day of Doom. Then to Me is your return, whereupon I shall judge between you in what you have been differing in. (3:55)
Commentary
In these verses the miraculous event of the Ascension of Sayyidna Isa (Jesus Christ) has been mentioned. “And they made a move” refers to the evil designs of the Jews who planned to arrest him and to get him crucified.
The next sentence i.e. “and Allah made a move” refers to the plan designed by Allah Almighty to save his prophet Isa from their ill designs. They sent one of them to Sayyidna Isa (alayh issalam) to arrest him and Allah changed his face totally and made him resemble Sayyidna Isa (alayh issalam) and raised Sayyidna Isa to heavens, while that person was crucified under the mistaken identity. How Allah had planned to save Isa (alayh issalam) from their clutches was disclosed to him when his enemies came to arrest him.
Explanation of important words in the verse
Some sects which deny, contrary to the belief of the entire Muslim community, the Ascension of Sayyidna Isa (Jesus Christ), his being alive in the heavens and his descension towards the later times, have worked through the words and meanings of these verses to open doors of distortion in the Qur’anic text. Therefore, it seems appropriate that these words be explained in some details.
Let us begin with “wallaahu khairul maakireen” translated as “and Allah is the best of those who make moves”. The word, makr in Arabic denotes a subtle and secret move or plan. If this is for a good purpose, it is good; and if this is for a bad purpose, it is bad. It was why the restriction of saiyy (evil) was placed with makr (move, plan) in 35:43.
The Qur’anic word, makr, is used exclusively for conspiracy, evil plan, and strategy in the everyday idiom of the Urdu language (in which this commentary was originally written), therefore, it should not be equated with the Arabic usage. This is the reason why Allah has been called “khairul maakireen”.
The verse means that the Jews started making a series of conspiracies and secret schemes against Sayyidna Isa (alayh issalam) going to the limit of convincing the ruler of the time that he was a heretic (God forbid) all bent upon changing the Torah and was going to make apostates of everybody. The ruler ordered the arrest of Sayyidna Isa. While this was the scene on one side, the subtle and secret move made by Allah Almighty was countering their evil plans more effectively, which has been mentioned in the verses coming next.
The word mutawaffi in “innee mutawaffeeka” takes tawaffi as its verbal noun with its root being wafyun. Lexically, the word means “to take in full”. This being its real meaning, its derivations wafa, ifa, and istifa are used to convey that sense. In fact, the real meaning of tawaffi is “to take in full” which is universally confirmed by all lexicons of the Arabic language. Since man completes his appointed time at the hour of death and the spirit or soul given by Allah is taken back fully and conclusively, it is in that context that this word is also used figuratively in the sense of death. A simple form of death is the daily sleep of human beings. For this too, the Holy Qur’an uses the same word when it says:
“Allaahu yatawaffal anfusa heena mautihaa wallatee lam tamut fee manaamihaa” (39:42)
“Allah takes away lives of the living at the time of their death and of those that do not die, in their sleep.”
Hafiz Ibn Taimiyyah says in al-Jawab al-Sahih (v. 2, p. 83):
“Al-tawaffi, in the Arabic language, means: to exact fully or take in full. It takes three forms; the first: to take in sleep; the second: to take in death; and the third: to take the soul and the body all together.”
In Kulliyat Abu al-Baqa, it is said:
“Al-tawaffi is putting to death and exacting of the soul in common usage while, in the classical usage, it is taking in full and the exacting of the due right.”
Therefore, the majority of scholars have translated the word mutawaffika in the verse under study in the sense of “taking in full”. This means that Allah will not leave Sayyidna Isa in the hands of the Jews, rather He would take him away which would be in the form that he would be risen unto Him in the heavens.
This is how the words “I am to take you in full” have been interpreted by the majority of the scholars. However, some authentic comentators of the Holy Qur’an have interpreted these words in the sense of “giving death” also, but they do not mean that the death of Sayyidna Isa (alayh issalam) will occur at the hands of his enemies. The true meaning of the verse, according to these commentators is as follows:
Allah Almighty said two things to comfort Jesus at a time when the Jews were bent on killing him. One: That his death will come, not at their hands in the form of killing, but that it would be a natural death. Two: In order to rescue him from the evil designs of those people, Allah Almighty will, at that time, raise Jesus towards Him. This explanation is exactly what has been reported from Sayyidna Ibn Abbas (radiyallahu anh) as quoted by al-Suyuti in his al-Durr al-Manthur v. 2, p. 36 on the authority of several narrators.
The gist of this tafsir or explanation is that tawaffi does mean giving death, but there is the element of precedence and sequence in the words used. The fact of raafi’uka (I shall raise you) will come first and that of mutawaffika (I shall give you death) later. Now at this point, the wisdom behind mentioning the phenomenon of the earlier lies in the hint that it gives about the events which are to come later on. It means that raising towards Allah will not last forever; it would be temporary and then, he would return to the mortal world and prevail over enemies and later on, death will come to him in a natural way.
Thus, the event of his return from heaven and his death after having established his victory in the world was not only a miracle but a consummation of the honour and integrity of Jesus (alayh issalam). In addition to that, the unfounded Christian belief in the divinity of Jesus was also refuted. Had it not been so, the event of Jesus being raised towards the heavens alive would have further strengthened their false belief that he too was Living and Eternal like Allah. Therefore, by introducing the word mutawaffika (pointing out to his death) first, all those misconceptions which might have arisen from “raising of Jesus” have been refuted in advance.
The reality is that disbelievers and polytheists have always been vehemently opposed to prophets (alayhim issalam). And parallel to that there has been the customary practice of Allah – when a people unto whom a prophet has been sent stick to their own opinion, do not listen to the prophet and do not believe in him even after having witnessed the miracles, then, one of the following two counter-actions were taken: Either those people were annihilated through some natural calamity as was done with Ad and Thamud and the peoples of Prophets Lut and Salih (alayhim assalam); or, alternatively Allah would instruct His prophet to migrate from the habitat of disbelievers and go to some other place. It was there that they were provided with such power and glory that they finally achieved victory against the people whom they were sent to. For example, Prophet Ibrahim, (alayh issalam) migrated from Iraq and sought refuge in Syria. Similarly, Prophet Musa (Moses) (alayh issalam), migrated from Egypt and came to Madyan. Finally, the Last Prophet, Muhammad (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) migrated from Makkah and came to Madinah. It was from there that he finally attacked Makkah and conquered it. This raising of Jesus to the heavens to outmaneuver the threatening designs of the Jews was, in fact, an act of emigration in its own way, following which he would return to this world and achieve total victory over the Jews.
Now comes the question as to why this emigration of his, quite separate from the rest, has the heavens as the destination? So, for that matter, Allah Almighty has Himself said about him that his case is like that of Adam (alayh issalam). The way in which Adam’s birth differs from the normal birth of the rest of creation, (i.e., without a father and a mother) so it is that the birth of Jesus took a miraculous form different from the normal birth of human beings; and his death too, taking a unique and unmatched form, will materialize after hundreds of years following his return to the world — unprecedented indeed. Why then, should one be surprised if his emigration too follows some such unique pattern?
These marvels of nature led the ignorant among Christians into believing and declaring that he was God, while deliberation into the various aspects of these very marvels, are clear proofs of his servitude as a human being to God, obedience to the Divine will and the demonstration of human traits. It is for this reason that the Holy Qur’an has made a pointed reference to the refutation of belief in the Godhood of Jesus on all such occasions. The raising towards the heavens would have made this doubt all the more strong. Therefore, by bringing the word mutawaffika (I am to take you in full) earlier, this doubt was totally eliminated. Thus we come to realize that this verse, no doubt, aims at negating the Jewish plans since they were all set to crucify and kill Jesus, (alayh issalam), and that Allah Almighty made their plans come to nothing. Moreover, this precedence and sequence of words became the mode of refuting the Christians as well that Jesus was no God who was never to die but that a time will come when he too will meet his death.
In his Tafsir Imam al-Razi has said that such precedence and sequence occurs frequently in the noble Qur’an in order to cover similar expedient considerations under which an event due later has been mentioned first while an event due earlier has been placed after that. (al-Tafsir al-Kabir, v. 2, p.48)
As for raafi’uka ilayya (And I shall raise you towards Me), the meaning is clear. Addressing Jesus here, it has been said: “I shall raise you towards Me”. Every one knows that Jesus is not the name of just the spirit but that of the spirit and the body of Jesus. Now taking the raising of Jesus in the sense that the act of raising was spiritual only, and not physical, is all wrong. As far as the word, raf’ (raising) is concerned, there are occasions when it is also used to indicate raising of ranks as it appears in the following verses of the noble Qur’an:
“Rafa’a ba’dakum fawqa ba’din darajaatin” (6:165)
“…and raised some of you in ranks over others.”
“Yarfa’illahullazeena aamanoo minkum wallazeena ootul’ilma” (58:11)
“…and Allah will raise up in rank those of you who believe and those who have been given knowledge.”
So, it is obvious that the word, raf’ : raising, in the sense of the raising of rank or status has been used figuratively in view of the context of the aforementioned verses. There is no reason here to ignore the real meaning and go by that which is figurative. Moreover, by using the word, ila (towards) alongwith the word, raf’ (raising), at this particular place, the possibility of such a figurative meaning has been totally eliminated. What is said in this verse is raafi’uka ilayya: I shall raise you towards Me. Then there is the verse from Surah al-Nisa (4:158), which refutes the belief of Jews; there too, what was said is “wa maa qataloohu yaqeenan barrafa’ahullahu ilayhi” that is, the Jews certainly did not kill Jesus, instead, Allah raised him towards Himself. This later expression is used for nothing but the raising alive of the spirit and the body.
Explained this far were the words of the verse.
Allah Almighty’s Five Promises to Jesus
In the verse under reference, Allah Almighty made five promises to Isa (alayh issalam) vis-a-vis the Jews:
1. The first promise was that his death will not come at the hands of the Jews through killing. It will be a natural death coming at its appointed time and that appointed time will come close to the Day of Doom, when Isa (alayh issalam) will come down from the heavens onto the earth as reported in details in sound ahadith transmitted through unbroken chains, part of which will appear later.
2. The second promise was to raise him towards the heavens in the existing situation. This was fulfilled right then. The report of this fulfillment was given in Surah al-Nisa (4:158) by saying:
“Wa maa qataloohu yaqeenan barrafa’ahullahu ilayhi”
“Certainly, the Jews did not kill him, instead; Allah Almighty raised him towards Himself.”
3. The third promise was: “wa mutahhiruka minallazeena kafaroo”, that is, to have him cleansed of false accusations brought on him by his enemies. That promise was fulfilled when the last of the prophets (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) came and refuted all false accusations of the Jews. For instance, the Jews threw slanders on the parentage of Sayyidnaa Isa (alayh issalam) because of his having been born without a father. The noble Qur’an refuted this slander by declaring that he was born without a father because such was the power and will of Allah. And that too does not call for much of a surprise. More surprising is the birth of Adam since he was born without both a father and a mother.
The Jews accused Sayyidna Isa (alayh issalam) of claiming to be God. There are many verses in the noble Qur’an in which, contrary to this accusation, Sayyidna Isa (alayh issalam) has been reported to have publicly confessed his being human and a servant and bondsman of Allah.
4. The fourth promise appears in “wajaa’ilullazeenattaba’ooka fawqallazeena kafaroo” (and placed those who follow you above those who disbelieve) which means that his followers will be made to overcome those who deny and oppose him. This promise was fulfilled in the sense that following here means the belief in and confession of the prophethood of Sayyidna Isa (alayh issalam). The belief in and the practice of all injunctions ascribed to him is not a pre-condition. Thus the Christians and the Muslims both fall in this category as they believe in the prophethood and messengership of Sayyidna Isa (alayh issalam). However, this is a different matter that holding this much of belief is not enough to bring forth salvation in the Hereafter. Instead, the salvation in the Hereafter depends on believing in all injunctions brought by Sayyidna Isa (alayh issalam). One of the instructions given by Sayyidna Isa (alayh issalam) was that his followers should believe and have faith in the last of the Prophets (sallallahu alayhi wasallam), who would come after Jesus departs. The Christians did not follow this instruction in matters of faith and belief, therefore, they deprived themselves of salvation in the Hereafter while Muslims acted in accordance with that too, therefore, they became deserving of salvation in the Hereafter. But, part of the promise which relates to having dominant authority over Jews was dependent on the prophethood of Sayyidna Isa (alayh issalam) only. That dominance in the world has always been the fate of Christians and Muslims vis-a-vis the Jews, and surely, so shall it be through the Day of Judgement.
From the time when Allah Almighty made this promise right upto now, it has always been the case that the Christians and Muslims have dominated the Jews. The world has seen the establishment of their empires. The existence of the present state of Israel cannot make the truth of this position doubtful for several reasons. To begin with, and in reality, this state is no more than a manifestation of the military might of Russia and the Christians of Euro-American origin which they have established and maintained against Muslims. As soon as Russia, America and countries of Europe withdraw their patronage, the world will itself witness the instant collapse of this state and its disappearance from the map of the world. Therefore, people who can see the reality do realise the actual position of Israel or the Government of the Jews. It is by no means a manifestation of the domination of Jews. If, just for the sake of argument, it is taken to be their own state, even then, who would – in his right frame of mind – deny that, given the totality of Christians and Muslims, they are wielders of lesser influence and are much subjugated with fear. Even if we were to leave this aspect aside, we know that a temporary domination by the Jews close to the Day of Judgement has been reported in the authentic reports of the Holy Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wasallam). Now if this world is destined to exist for any considerable period of time and if the Day of Judgement is close, that domination too is not contrary to the reports which Muslims consider authentic. Moreover, such short-lived occupation cannot be given the name of a state or government especially when it is based on a conspiracy hatched by the Christians and the communists.
5. The fifth promise, that of giving a decision in respect of such conflicts in faith on the Day of Judgement will certainly be fulfilled on its appointed time as it has been indicated in the verse:
“Thumma ilayya marji’ukum fa’ahkumu baynakum” (3:55)
“Then, to Me is your return, whereupon I shall judge between you.”
JESUS: The question of his life and second coming:
The Jews are the only people in the world who say that Sayyidna Isa (alayh issalam) was crucified, killed and buried following which he never returned to life. What happened really and truly has been clarified in verse 158 of Surah al-Nisa in the Holy Qur’an. Then, in “makaroo wamakarallahu” (And they made a move, and Allah made a move) of the present verse, it has been pointed out that Allah Almighty made the sinister move of the enemies of Isa recoil upon those who had gone into the house to kill Sayyidna Isa (alayh issalam). It was one of them that Allah Almighty changed to look exactly like Sayyidna Isa (alayh issalam) and then He raised Sayyidna Isa (alayh issalam) alive onto the heavens. The words of the verse are as follows:
“Wamaa qataloohu wamaa salaboohu walaakin shubbiha lahum” (4:157)
“And they did not kill him and they did not crucify him, but they were deluded by resemblance.”
Details regarding this will appear under the commentary on Surah al-Nisa.
The Christians said that Jesus was, no doubt, killed on the cross but was brought back to life once again and raised onto the heavens. The verse under reference has refuted this false notion as well. It is stressed here that similar to the Jews who were rejoicing after killing their own man, the Christians fell a victim to the same mistaken identity by believing that it was Jesus who got killed on the Cross, and as such, the Christians too became the victims of mistaken identity. This is obvious from the Qur’anic statement shubbiha lahum (they were deluded by resemblance) just like the Jews were deceived by mistaken identity.
As opposed to the view of these two groups, there is the Islamic belief, stated here in this verse and in several other verses clearly, which says that Allah Almighty raised him alive onto the heavens in order to rescue him from the Jews. He was not to be killed and he was not to be crucified. He is in the heavens alive and it will be close to the Day of Judgement when he shall come down from the heavens, lead the Muslims to victory over the Jews, and finally, he will die a natural death.
There is a consensus of the entire Muslim community on this belief. Hafiz ibn Hajr, in his Talkhis al-Habir, has reported this consensus (page 319). This belief, and the consensus of the community on it, stands proved on the authority of several verses of the Holy Qur’an and reports from mutawatir ahadith transmitted through an unbroken chain of reporting. However, this is not the place for its detailed discussion, and not necessary either. The reason being that scholars of the community have already taken up this question in special books with full clarity giving detailed answers to those who dispute in the Ascension of the Christ. For instance, the Arabic work, Aqidatu l’Islam fi Hayati Isa (alayh issalam) by Hujjatu l’Islam Maulana Sayyid Muhammad Anwar Shah al-Kashmiri, Hayat-e-Isa (alayh issalam), (the Life of Jesus) in Urdu by Hadrat Maulana Badr Alam Muhajir Madani, Hayat-e-Masih (alayh issalam) in Urdu by Maulana Sayyid Muhammad Idris and hundreds of other books or essays dealing with this question have been widely published and circulated. While carrying out the orders of his respected teacher, Maulana Sayyid Muhammad Anwar Shah al-Kashmiri, this writer had collected more than one hundred mutawatir ahadith identified by him which prove in an undeniable manner that Sayyidna Isa (alayh issalam) was raised alive and that he will return close to the Day of Judgement. This collection in book form and entitled, Al-Tasrih bima Tawatara fi Nuzul al-Masih has been recently published from Beirut with marginal notes and commentary by Allama Abd al-Fattah Abu Ghudah, a revered scholar of Allepo, Syria.
Hafiz ibn Kathir while explaining the verse “wa’innahoo la’ilmullissaa’ati” of Surah al-Zukhruf (43:61) has said:
“There are ahadith from the Holy Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wasallam), narrated in an uninterrupted succession, that he proclaimed the coming of Isa (alayh issalam) before the Day of Judgement as a just leader.
At this stage I would like to draw the attention of the reader to a point which, if noticed even with a small measure of sanity and justice, would leave no room for any doubt regarding this question. The point is that in the eleventh section of Surah al-Imran, Allah Almighty while referring to past prophets deemed it sufficient to refer to prophets Adam, Nuh, Al-Ibrahim (the family of Ibrahim) and Al-Imran (the family of Imran) briefly in one single verse. After that, it was in nearly three sections and twenty two verses that reference was made to Sayyidna Isa (alayh issalam) and his family with meticulous detail – something which has not been made in that manner even in respect of the Last of the prophets (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) to whom the Qur’an was revealed. Note the detailed mention of the grandmother of Jesus, her pledge, the birth of his mother, her name, her upbringing, the conceiving of Jesus by his mother then the detailed narrative of his birth, followed by the description of what his mother ate and drank, after child birth, her return to the family with the newborn child, their blames and curses, first the gift of eloquence to the new born as his miracle, then his growing up and call to his people, opposition faced and the help of disciples, the hostile attempts by the Jews to trap and kill him, his being raised alive onto the heavens – then complete details of his additional traits, his looks, physique, dress and its likes – these are accounts which have not been taken up in the whole spectrum of the Qur’an and Hadith in respect of any prophet or messenger with that much of detail. This point is an open invitation to everyone to think as to why did this happen and what was the wisdom behind it.
Even a moment’s reflection here makes it clear that the Last of the prophets (sallallahu alayhi wasallam), being the final prophet and messenger with no apostle to come after him, took special care to guide his community about conditions that it was going to face right through the Day of Judgement. He therefore, took upon himself to identity those who would be worthy of the community’s following. He, as a matter of principle, described them with a profile of their general qualities. There were other blessed people whom he identified by name and emphatically asked the community to follow them. Other than these, he also marked out the astray and the deviating who posed a danger to the faith of the community.
Of the mischief-makers who were to come after the Holy Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) the most notorious was Dajjal (the anti-Christ) the imposter of the Messiah, whose disturbing wickedness was terribly deviation-prone. Therefore, the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) related many details of his profile, attending conditions and distinguishing traits, so that there remains no room for the community to doubt about his being a mischief monger whenever he appears. Similarly, among the later day religious reformers and power-worthy elders, Sayyidna Isa (alayh issalam) is the most distinguished whom Allah Almighty blessed with the station of prophethood, kept him alive in the heavens to come to the rescue of the Muslim community during the wicked period of Dajjal (anti-Christ) and appointed him to kill Dajjal close to the Day of Judgement. This is why it was deemed necessary that the community should be given the most clear indications of his person and qualities as well, so that no human being remains in doubt while identifying Sayyidna Isa (alayh issalam) when he comes, the second time.
There are many elements of wisdom in this treatment.
Firstly, should the community find it difficult to identify Isa (Jesus Christ) (alayh issalam), the very purpose of his coming will be negated. If the Muslim community will not identify and cooperate with him, how could he help and support them? Secondary, although Sayyidna Isa (alayh issalam) will not come into the world at that time designated as Prophet, but he would come to lead the Muslim community as the Khalifa (viceregent) of the Holy Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wasallam), the personal station of prophethood that he has will not be taken from him. Instead, he would be like the governor of a province or state who continues to hold that position even if he has gone out to visit some other province or state for some reason. Therefore, even though he is not as a governor in that province, the office of the governorship has not been ipso facto taken away from him. Similary, Sayyidna Isa (alayh issalam) will not be without his attribute of prophethood at that time, and the way the rejection of his prophethood was infidelity earlier, so infidelity it shall be at that time. Now the Muslim community which has already nursed and shown its faith in his prophethood as based on the guidance of the Qur’an would fall into the grievous error of rejection, if it fails to recognize him when he comes. So, clarifying his signs and attributes in a greater measure was extremely necessary.
Thirdly, since the event of the coming of Sayyidna Isa (alayh issalam) will take place towards the later years of this mortal world, chances were – given the ambiguity in his marks of identification that some other person could come up with the claim of being Messiah, the son of Mary, in which case, these indicators will serve well to refute and reject any such claim. This is what happened in pre-partition India where Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian claimed that he was the promised Messiah. The scholars of the Muslim community refuted his claim on the basis of these very cited indicators.
In short, here and at other places, the very fact of such detailed description concerning Sayyidna Isa (alayh issalam) is in itself indicating that his reappearance is due close to the Day of Judgement and that he would return to the world. .
This is what I have been waiting for from you. It proves that what the Qur'an says about Jesus and what the Bible says about Jesus are completely different.
I have a few things for you.
Number One
Please show me ten prophecies from the Qur'an that have come true and I will show you ten (or hundreds if you would like) prophecies that are not vague that are clear and to the point that the Bible has predicted and has come true. This alone should prove it, The miracles Jesus and his followers did should prove it. We'll see what you come up with.
The Bible has never been proven wrong and millions have tried, All of the prophecies of the Bible have come true, and the prophecies that the Bible has made about future times is coming true now and will come true later. IE: The Arab nations teaming up and about to go to war against Israel the Bible calls the (Gog/Magog war) This will be the Arab nations and Russia going against Israel. However God will supernaturally defend Israel. 60 Plus wars with Israel so far you'd think people of earth would get the point. When God said in Genesis 12:3 That anyone who curses Israel will be cursed and Anyone who blesses Israel I will bless. But still people like being blind.
Number Two
Please tell me how in the religion of Islam does one get to go to Heaven.
Number Three
Why does the Bible say that Jesus is God, the Messiah who paid for our sins and only by believing on Jesus Christ can a man be saved and go to Heaven (Enter God's Kingdom) and then why does the Qur'an say that Jesus was just a teacher/prophet? In other words why does the Qur'an take away from Jesus what he was. Why does the Qur'an even mention Jesus? Why does the Old & the New testament of the Bible not even mention Muhammad?
Listen to what the Bible says about your "Mahdi". This is Satanic prophecies let me explain.
Your Mahdi is the Anti-Christ of the Bible. Islam's Jesus that you say will be with the Mahdi is what we call the False Prophet. Your Mahdi will claim to be God and deceive many. But the True Lord Jesus Christ will defeat him and your Mahdi will make a 7 year peace deal with Israel, but it will be a false peace. Your Mahdi will go against Israel and try to destroy her. He will fail. In this time BILLIONS of people are going to die from all sorts of things. We call this time the tribulation. This is what the Bible says.
When Satan inspired the Qur'an though Muhammad, he (Satan) knew and knows the Bible very well. Satan though the Bible understood what was going to take place. So he started his false religion very early after the Bible was put together.
This is why in the religion of Islam you have these things that appear opposite of each other. IE: Your Mahdi being our Anti-Christ (The one who will claim to be God and control the world) Your right, he is coming. But it's Satan. Not God. The Jesus you believe will be with him and will lead people to become Muslims is not Jesus, but the one in the Bible who will be with the Anti-Christ the Bible calls the False Prophet.
So there it is in a very basic nutshell. I understand you may have knowledge about Islam. But I would ask that you study the Bible and understand what it says before you make up your mind on which one is right. While I do not know the Qur'an as well as maybe you do, I know enough of it to know that it is a false religion invented by Satan.
Greetings Mr Godfear,
With the website owner's permission, I think ours is going to be a lenghty discussion.Therefore so as to enable you to read the information I have just sent, I will answer your second question first –how does one go to heaven.
Firstly one has to be someone who believes in the basic beliefs/faith(Iman ) the Aqeedah. BY all -Kings, Imams and laymen.
6 BELIEFS
1.Belief in One God (no partners or associates even incarnations )
2.Belief in the Prophets and messengers : beginning from Adam,and others amongst them : :Noah, Abraham Moses,David, Jesus and ends with Muhammad (Peace upon them All )
3.Beliefs in the angels: Gabriel,Mikail and others
4.Belief in the messages and messages in all authenticate and not contimanated messages in scriptures; Torah,Psalms .Bible and Quran.
5.Belief in Day of Resurrection and Judgement Day
6.Belief in Divine Will and Decree
With these beliefs one submits to the Will of the one and one only God , the Creator of the Heavens and earths and the things in between, including the 52 billion galaxies.However this surrender and submission is" packaged "with God given ability and faculty to make choices.
The choice to comply with God's commands on dos and don' ts as stipultated in the authentic scriptures delivered to the prophets and contents explained by them to the people.The do's are
manifested in 6 primary obligatory ACTIONS by all,imams,kings and laymen.
5 ACTIONS
1.A Declaration that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is His messenger.
This is an important declaration required of each individual .This itself refutes any
accusation that Muhammad (pbuh ) invents or write the Quran or is the founder of Islam.
2.Perform solat ( pray ) 5 times a day (in the house or in the mosque ) without fail.Perform congregational Friday prayers at the mosque without fail.
3.Perform obligatory fasting from dawn to dusk for the 30 days of Ramadhan.This fasting entails no sex, no drinking or food from dawn to dusk.
4.Giving to poor, needy travellers .This obligatory giving of zakat entails giving away a percentage of one's wealth once a year.
5.Performing the Haj rituals in Mecca for those who can afford it.This pilgrimage is essentially a once a year gathering of Muslims from all over the globe.The rituals are in remembrance of the sacrifices of Prophet Abraham's family in obeying God's commands.
These are the basic do's enjoined in the Quran.God Willing, the "stairway to Heaven "is to do all the dos and abstain from the don'ts ( the dont's are the opposites of the beliefs which are disobedience to God and the crime against God's creatures -killing, cheating etc )
There are no priest intermediaries or atonement of one' sins by or through other people.
The 1.6 billion muslim individuals has direct communication with God and this communication is through the do's mentioned especially the solat.
Mr God Fear,
Your statement “The Islam religion was written after the Bible. It was invented to control Arabs and guide them away from the true God. This is why so much of it is a bent and twisted ”
Can you prove your allegations? But it will be a polemic and takes a lot of space.But this is exactly why I am in a Christian web site, to enlighten those who wish to know about Islam.
I could absolutely prove my allegations to you. Problem is just as Jesus told the pharisees and they did not believe because they where blocked with religion, i fear you too would be blocked.
Your religion gets in your way. I've let this conversation go on here on my website because it's nice to have these friendly debates.
Your coming to a Christian web site to "enlighten" Christians who wish to know about Islam? Listen Christians know about Islam, we do not need to understand every single religion out there to understand that all religions out there reject what Jesus Christ said and did.
I know full well that the Bible was in fact written before the Qur'an. If you do not believe me, this is something you should study. The Dead Sea Scrolls also back up the Bible and also prove that is was written well before Mohammad even lived.
Even the people who hated Jesus recorded the history about him correctly. Why would someone who hates Jesus lie for him? Makes no sense at all.
Both the Old and New testament of the Bible was in fact written before the Qur'an. If you would like me to prove this please email me at sysop [AT] gjcn.org and I'll gladly show you proof of this in great detail.
Also I wanted to tell you, you may want to signup with intense debate (the comment system here) so that you get emailed anytime someone replies to your comments as well as I could white list you (or anyone) so your comments are approved at the time you write them rather than waiting for approval. As long as comments are kept clean I have no problem with that.
Greetings Sir,
Thank you for the offer,
Muslims have no issue on Bible preceding Quran.. As mentioned earlier, Quran in our belief is the culmination of the messages of the genuine Torah,Zabur (Psalms ) Injil (Bible ).We never dispute that the authentic scriptures were there before Quran.In fact. we say Quran is the final and last testament realtive to the First and New Testament..Chronologically as proven by the Dead Sea scrolls or whatever relics discovered that Quran is preceded by them is part of our faith.The only issue and it is a big one is we believe they have been contaminated and changes made by human hands rendered most of the messages as unreliable.We are not able to find the original authentic copies and there is no one who had memorised the whole text to cross check with the written and translated versions.We are not certain whether the Dead sea scrolls said to be written during Prophet Habbakuks time have not been tempered with now.(We believe in Prophet Habbakuk )
Greetings Mr Godfear,
Before I reply your questions here is another information,
Who is the Holy Spirit In Islam?
Just like in Christianity, we the Muslims also believe in the Holy spirit, however so our belief in the Holy spirit is quite different than the Christian belief on this matter. However so who is the Holy spirit that the Quran often refers to? :
016.102
YUSUFALI: Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.
05.110
YUSUFALI: Then will Allah say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: ‘This is nothing but evident magic.’
So who exactly is the Holy Spirit? Let us consult Ibn Kathir’s tafsir:
Jibril is Ruh Al-Qudus
The proof that Jibril is the Ruh Al-Qudus is the statement of Ibn Mas`ud in explanation of this Ayah. This is also the view of Ibn `Abbas, Muhammad bin Ka`b, Isma`il bin Khalid, As-Suddi, Ar-Rabi` bin Anas, `Atiyah Al-`Awfi and Qatadah. Additionally, Allah said,
(Which the trustworthy Ruh (Jibril) has brought down. Upon your heart (O Muhammad ) that you may be (one) of the warners) (26:193-194).
Al-Bukhari recorded `A’ishah saying that the Messenger of Allah erected a Minbar in the Masjid on which Hassan bin Thabit (the renowned poet) used to defend the Messenger of Allah (with his poems). The Messenger of Allah said,
(O Allah! Aid Hassan with Ruh Al-Qudus, for he defended Your Prophet.)
Abu Dawud recorded this Hadith in his Sunan as did At-Tirmidhi who graded it Hasan Sahih. Further, Ibn Hibban recorded in his Sahih that Ibn Mas`ud said that the Prophet said,
(Ruh Al-Qudus informed me that no soul shall die until it finishes its set provisions and term limit. Therefore, have Taqwa of Allah and seek your sustenance in the most suitable way.)
Reminding `Isa of the Favors that Allah Granted him
Allah mentions how He blessed His servant and Messenger, `Isa, son of Maryam, and the miracles and extraordinary acts He granted him. Allah said,
(Remember My favor to you) when I created you from your mother, without male intervention, and made you a sign and clear proof of My perfect power over all things. d
(And to your mother) when I made you testify to her chastity and you thus absolved her from the sin that the unjust, ignorant liars accused her of,
(when I supported you with Ruh – il-Qudus) the angel Jibril, and made you a Prophet, calling to Allah in the cradle and manhood. I made you speak in the cradle, and you testified that your mother was free from any immoral behavior, and you proclaimed that you worship Me. You also conveyed the news of My Message and invited them to worship Me.
And also here is what one Sheikh writes concerning this matter:
Praise be to Allaah.
The “Holy Spirit” (Rooh al-Qudus) is Jibreel (peace be upon him). Shaykh al-Shanqeeti said: “The words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning), ?and [We] supported him with Rooh al-Qudus’ [al-Baqarah 2:87] refer to Jibreel according to the most sound view. This is indicated by the words (interpretation of the meaning): ?Which the trustworthy Rooh has brought down’ [al-Shu'ara' 26:193] and ?then We sent to her our Rooh’ [Maryam 19:17].”
Ibn Abi Haatim narrated from Ahmad ibn Sinaan. Abu’l-Za’raa’ told us: ?Abd-Allaah said: Rooh al-Qudus (“the Holy Spirit”) is Jibreel, then he said: something similar was narrated from Muhammad ibn Ka’b al-Qurazi, Qutaadah, ?Atiyah al-?Awfi, al-Saddi and al-Rabee’ ibn Anas.
This view is supported by the above and by the report narrated by the two Shaykhs [al-Bukhaari and Muslim] with their isnaads from Abu Salamah ibn ?Abd al-Rahmaan ibn ?Awf, that he heard Hassaan ibn Thaabit al-Ansaari asking Abu Hurayrah to bear witness, “I ask you by Allaah, did you hear the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say, ?O Hassaan, respond on behalf of the Messenger of Allaah. O Allaah, support him with Rooh al-Qudus’?” Abu Hurayrah said, “Yes.”
(
Continuation on "Holy Spirit"
al-Tafseer al-Masboor by Dr. Hikmat Basheer, 1/192-193)
Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said: the majority of scholars said that this refers to Jibreel (peace be upon him), and that Allaah called him al-Rooh al-Ameen, Rooh al-Qudus and Jibreel.”
(Daqaa’iq al-Tafseer, part 1, p. 310)
He wrote an entire chapter on that and said:
Who is the Holy Spirit In Islam?
Just like in Christianity, we the Muslims also believe in the Holy spirit, however so our belief in the Holy spirit is quite different than the Christian belief on this matter. However so who is the Holy spirit that the Quran often refers to? :
016.102
YUSUFALI: Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.
05.110
YUSUFALI: Then will Allah say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: ‘This is nothing but evident magic.’
So who exactly is the Holy Spirit? Let us consult Ibn Kathir’s tafsir:
Jibril is Ruh Al-Qudus
The proof that Jibril is the Ruh Al-Qudus is the statement of Ibn Mas`ud in explanation of this Ayah. This is also the view of Ibn `Abbas, Muhammad bin Ka`b, Isma`il bin Khalid, As-Suddi, Ar-Rabi` bin Anas, `Atiyah Al-`Awfi and Qatadah. Additionally, Allah said,
(Which the trustworthy Ruh (Jibril) has brought down. Upon your heart (O Muhammad ) that you may be (one) of the warners) (26:193-194).
Al-Bukhari recorded `A’ishah saying that the Messenger of Allah erected a Minbar in the Masjid on which Hassan bin Thabit (the renowned poet) used to defend the Messenger of Allah (with his poems). The Messenger of Allah said,
(O Allah! Aid Hassan with Ruh Al-Qudus, for he defended Your Prophet.)
Abu Dawud recorded this Hadith in his Sunan as did At-Tirmidhi who graded it Hasan Sahih. Further, Ibn Hibban recorded in his Sahih that Ibn Mas`ud said that the Prophet said,
(Ruh Al-Qudus informed me that no soul shall die until it finishes its set provisions and term limit. Therefore, have Taqwa of Allah and seek your sustenance in the most suitable way.)
Reminding `Isa of the Favors that Allah Granted him
Allah mentions how He blessed His servant and Messenger, `Isa, son of Maryam, and the miracles and extraordinary acts He granted him. Allah said,
(Remember My favor to you) when I created you from your mother, without male intervention, and made you a sign and clear proof of My perfect power over all things. d
(And to your mother) when I made you testify to her chastity and you thus absolved her from the sin that the unjust, ignorant liars accused her of,
(when I supported you with Ruh – il-Qudus) the angel Jibril, and made you a Prophet, calling to Allah in the cradle and manhood. I made you speak in the cradle, and you testified that your mother was free from any immoral behavior, and you proclaimed that you worship Me. You also conveyed the news of My Message and invited them to worship Me.
A
continuation (Holy Spirit )
This is not limited only to the Messiah; others were also supported in this way. (The scholars) mentioned that Dawood said, “Do not stop supporting me with Rooh al-Qudus.” And our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to Hassaan ibn Thaabit, “O Allaah, support him with Rooh al-Qudus.” According to another report: “Rooh al-Qudus will be with you so long as you are defending His Prophet.” Both versions are narrated in al-Saheeh.
According to the Christians, the “Holy Spirit” dwelt in the Disciples, and according to them the “Holy Spirit” is something experienced by all of the Prophets. But Allaah says in al-Nahl (interpretation of the meaning):
“Say (O Muhammad) Rooh ul Qudus [Jibreel (Gabriel)] has brought it (the Qur’aan) down from your Lord with truth, that it may make firm and strengthen (the Faith of) those who believe, and as a guidance and glad tidings to those who have submitted (to Allaah as Muslims)”
[al-Nahl 16:102]
“Which the trustworthy Rooh [Jibreel (Gabriel)] has brought down
Upon your heart (O Muhammad)”
[al-Shu'ara' 26:193]
“Whoever is an enemy to Jibreel (Gabriel) (let him die in his fury), for indeed he has brought it (this Qur’aan) down to your heart”
[al-Baqarah 2:97]
So it is clear that Rooh al-Qudus here refers to Jibreel. No one suggests that Rooh al-Qudus means the life of Allaah; nor is this indicated by the wording and this phrase is never used in that sense.
Daqaa’iq al-Tafseer, part 2, p. 92
So it is a consensus among Islamic Scholarship that the Holy Spirit is Jibreel, and this isn’t just a mere opinion, the Islamic texts and sources prove this fact, the scholars didn’t just make it up. For instance the Quran says this concerning the Holy Spirit:
016.102
YUSUFALI: Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.
So the Holy spirit has brought down the Quran to the prophet Muhammad, this is non other than the angel Jibreel, this is what the Quran says concerning Jibreel:
002.097
YUSUFALI: Say: Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel-for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by Allah’s will, a confirmation of what went before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe,-
So as you can see the Holy spirit can be non other than the angel Jibreel, the Holy spirit brings down the revelation which strengthens and guides the believers, the angel Jibreel brings down the revelation which strengthens and guides the believers! Hence the Holy Spirit is Jibreel and Jibreel is the Holy spirit!
So in conclusion the Holy Spirit in Islam is not God, nor a semi-God, the Holy Spirit in Islam is non other than the angel Jibree
Continuation
It is imperative for me to emphasize that Islam is not a new religion .It is a continuation of the Mosaic original faith and Jesus's infusion of etthical values into the much commercialised Mosaic (pbuh ) religion at that time..In fact it is our belief that Jesus (pbuh ) did not bring any new religion nor laws.His foundation is still Mosaic religion.
The innovations brought by Ozair to Mosaic faith and Paul of Tasaurus to Christianity are the ones not acceptable to us Muslims.
The difference in our line of thinking is due to your premise that Islam has no connection with both Mosaic and Jesus religions and that Muhammad (pbuh ) started a new religion. On the contrary, many Islamic penal laws are mosaic laws and many spritual and ascetic values in Islam are derived from Christiniaty.This is a proof of the continuity I am referring to.
Thank You
Paul of Tarsus did not start christianity nor did he innovate it, YHWH through the Ruach used him
to write things down, still the heart of the matter is this; only through the indwelling, inspiration,
guidance and instruction of the Ruach YHWH one will be able to understand scriptures, systemised
human religion (judaism, christianity, islam, hinduism, buddhism, sihkism, confusianism etc.)
won't do the job, you need a personal relationship with YHWH through Jehoshuva, the Ruach,
the Kabod, you can write what you want to justify whatever religion, at the end of the story it will still
be all human structured and interpreted religion.
All religions are awaiting someone to return and they will all accept the anti-christ and his false prophet instead, unless you are in Jehoshuva ha Mashiach!
But everybody is free to loose his/her time with endless scriptural discussions.
But the letter kills, only the Spirit makes alive.
Greetings Sirs,
This is Islam’s view on Baptism, a ritual of extreme importance
to Christians.
BAPTISM
The word ‘Baptism’ comes from the Greek ‘Baptein’ which means ‘to plunge, to immerse, or to wash.’ It was an ancient custom to wash or to make ablution. Islam has preserved this tradition in the form of ablution and ritual Ghusl for the purpose of purification purpose. Allah mentions in the Qur’an that He made water a source for purification. Allah Almighty says: “And He it is Who sendeth the winds, glad tidings heralding His mercy, and We send down purifying water from the sky.” (Al-Furqan: 48)
Like all other Prophets of Allah, Jesus, peace and blessings be upon him, also washed himself to purify himself. During his time Yahya (John, the Baptist) used to call people to repent and purify themselves in the River Jordan. It is mentioned that Jesus also went to him and took a bath of purification (Mark 1:9-11).
After that Allah appointed Jesus as His Prophet and Messenger and he began preaching Allah’s Message. Jesus was a servant of Allah. He used to pray and for his prayers he must be purifying himself.
Jews in his time also used to do a lot of ritual washings. The Old Testament speaks a lot about the use of water for the purpose of purification. (See Numbers 19:1-22; Leviticus 14-15-16:24-28)
After Jesus left this world, Paul became a leader of some Christians. It was he who gave a new interpretation of Jesus’ Baptism. He told them that when a person takes a Baptism in water, actually he immerses himself in Jesus’ blood and dies with him and then he is resurrected like Jesus into a new person. (See Romans 6:3-4).
Paul gave a new definition of Baptism. For him it was something to do with Original Sin and then the alleged death and resurrection of Jesus. (See Colossians 2:12)
For Jesus, peace and blessings be upon him, and his followers the Baptism was just a bath or ablution to purify themselves physically, ritually and spiritually, but with Pauline interpretation it became a symbol of belief in Jesus’ so-called death and resurrection.
We, as Muslims, accept the early tradition and that is what Islam has preserved and reaffirmed. We do not accept the later interpretation and doctrinal aberrations.”
The Koine (common) Greek, the Greek the new testament was written in the word for baptize is "baptizō"
( see: http://www.searchgodsword.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?nu… )
to make whelmed (that is, fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: – baptist, baptize, wash.
You are leaving out parts, it's interesting you leave out all the parts where God refers to Jesus as his son. When John the Baptist baptized Jesus
In John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 1:25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?
John 1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (Talking about Jesus Here)
John 1:27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 1:30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
John 1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
John 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
John 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
John 1:35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;
John 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
John the Baptist know Jesus was the Son of God, the Lamb of God, the one who would pay for the sins of the world!
How is it, that Islam sees Jesus only as a teacher or a prophet?
Mark 1:7 And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose.
Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Mark 1:9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
Mark 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
Mark 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Your Mark 1:9-11 sure sounds a lot more "simple" that what the Bible says took place in Mark 1:9-11 doesn't it? You are trying to say Jesus kinda just went down to take a bath, but the Bible says this is the time John declares Jesus to be Lord, God, Messiah, Christ The Lamb of God. God's only Son.
Being baptized is a symbolic showing in one's life. You do not become saved by being water baptized, you become saved by believing in Jesus the Christ for your spiritual baptizing by Jesus.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John the baptist said he baptize with water, but the one coming after him will baptize with the Holy Spirit. Water baptizing is symbolic of your decision to follow Jesus. Jesus baptism is to every believer is invisible spiritual, Water baptism is for the body, a symbolic physical showing of one's decision to follow Jesus Christ. That one has accepted Jesus Christ for salvation.
Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Acts 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Luke 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
You sir, are trying to take away Jesus's deity. You say you believe these books, but not that book. You believe these verses but not these verses.
Problem is, either the whole thing is true or none of it is true.
How could you believe some of the book of John, Luke, Matt, Mark, but not all of it. The WHOLE bible says that Jesus is Lord God. That it was Jesus who created the world, that Jesus was the messiah, that Jesus will rapture the Church and Jesus will come as a King and setup his Kingdom at the 2nd coming and DESTROY all who go against Israel.
You sir, will always try and play down by any means that you can, that Jesus was God. You will say you believe this, or how you think Jesus was a good teacher, but you will not believe the verses that say Jesus is our LORD and SAVIOR. No one will see the kingdom of God unless they have accepted Jesus Christ as their pardon for sin.
John 3:16, John 3:36
In His Service