The Bible verses the Qur’an
~We do not serve the same God~
By: Odwar Abiero, Christian Pastor in Africa
Edited by Jack Heckathorne
I believe the Bible rather than the Qur’an because prophets in the Old Testament and apostle’s writings of the New Testament were no different in content even though their writings were not of the same period. Moses wrote five books of the Bible from 1500 BC and the New testament was written from 40-90 AD, but when you read the Bible, despite the differences, the writings remains the same eg: Psalms 119:105,2 Peter 1:19,2 Corinthians 6:17 and Genesis 1:2.
This shows that the prophets and apostles were inspired by the Holy Spirit as the Bible illustrates in the following texts: 2 Peter 1:9,Psalms 119:105,Romans 15:4,John 20:31,1 Corinthians 2:10,11,2 Peter 1:4,Psalms 119:11,1 John 2:14,Matt 4:4,1 Peter 2:2, Matt 22:29,Acts 17:10,11,John 7:17,Luke 11:28 and 1 John 1:7.
This is contrary to the Qur’an, because their apostles and prophets are not well understood as to where and when they got their call and message. Even their life history is not well known and this is why we cannot believe their Qur’an.
The Bible tells the full history of Jesus as we read in the Bible: Psalm 72:12,Isaiah 53:7,John 1:1-14,Isaiah 40:3,Titus 2:13,John 14:1-3,Acts 1:9,Acts 1:10,11,Rev 1:7,John 3:16, but the Qur’an tells differently, that Jesus is Issa which is not true. Even the family of Jesus Christ in the Bible is quite different with that in the the Qur’an. The Qur’an tells that the grandfather of Issa is Amram (Qur’an 66:12) the same Imram is Haroun’s brother which is contradicting.
John 19:25 is where we find the family of Jesus Christ clearly and the family of Jesus’s mother in the book of Mark 6:3-4. How did Haroun become the brother to Jesus’ mother (Mary) if there are1500 years between the birth of Amram, the father of Moses, and Miriam to the birth of Jesus Christ? This is marvelous.
In Numbers 26:59 Mary, Jesus mother, is coming from Jude, not from Amram the son of Levi (Matt 1:1). Jesus is son of David (Mark 10:47, Luke 1:27-32).
In the Bible the gospel was brought to the world by Jesus Christ while the Qur’an 19:33 and 61:6 claims that Issa taught gospel to nobody from nowhere. The Issa of Qur’an has no prophecy telling of his existence in this world. The Bible says that every eye will see Jesus in his second coming Rev 1:7 but the Qur’an says that Issa will appear at Syria in his second coming.
Qur’an 5:82 tells that the great Muslims are the enemy of Jews, why then, in the Qur’an 16:43 they were told that when they don’t understand the Qur’an they should go ask from Jews and Christians those who knew the word before them? Are the Jews and Christians the ones who are to teach the Muslims the Qur’an?
How did Issa, (supposedly Jesus) who is a Jew, manage to become their apostle while the Jews are their great enemy? I think that it might be that Qur’an was copied from the Bible. Nevertheless, the Bible warned us regarding the false prophets in (Ezekiel 13:3,6,7) and Jesus warned us of turning back to other gospels rather than Bible (Galatians 1:6.) Also, Paul warned of the false Jesus Christ who could be preached.
(2 Corinthians 11:4.)
Could I appeal to Muslims to read again the Qur’an and Bible that they may understand who Jesus is. God cannot allow a person to kill or to revenge but to forgive, it is only the devil that kills and takes revenge through people.
“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.” (John 8:44)
“Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.”
(Romans 12:19-21)
Otherwise they may feel that they are saved by GOD, but SATAN has deceived them.
Mr. Othman,
The spitirual ruh in the quranis to compare with the ruach kodesh (sacrificial holy) in the
old testament, the fulness Ruach Kadosh ( Holy caracteristic) was given at pentecost.
the quran went back to the old testament in very many ways.
the so-called moderate combination/middle community can be found within christianity
so that doesn't say a thing.
I strongly disagree that ruh qudus (spirit of holiness/spiritual state) is Gabriel, it is mere
contamination and blasphemy.
Ruach YHWH/Holy Spirit, Jehoshuwa ha MoshiachJesus Christ, Malak YHWH/Angel of
the Lord, Kabod YHWH/Glory of Yahweh and Abba Yah/Father YHWH are ALL YHWH.
Muhammed was not the last messenger (for we are all prophets through the H.S.)
and neither was the quran the final testament. it excludes all personal testimony of believers
going back to pre-fulness of the Holy Spirit times.
continue,
Furthermore many christians reject any additions of revelations after Apokalupsis.
in a way both can be interpreted extreme.
Another thing; praying 5 times a day is prayer-limitation at best, Paul through thee H.S.
instruct the believers to pray without ceasing.
Also the pillar of faith in islam to visit Mecca once in a lifetime is flawed, too many people are too poor and it wont happen even if the entire world would be islamic (that will never happen)
it would be impossible to realise because of the huge numbers.
Satan is very satisfied with the world religions the way they are going since the 1990's,
they are all leading people away from the real Qahal YHWH. his personal replacement on
earth in human form will put an end to the confusion and establish his own cult, he wont
recognise any of the existing religions. The Kurios will put an end to it.
Mr Christos,
You say "Archangel can't be the Ruach YHWH and you can't worship YHWH
without the Ruach, thus you don't worship YHWH but something else."
Jibreel (pbuh ) is not God's incarnation in the spirit mode as what you believed in trinity.Neither is Jesus (pbuh ) God's incarnation in the human mode.Incarnation is a Greek idol concept.Transformation concept comes from Hinduism.Both are not semetic beliefs.If they are not from God they must be from Syaitan.
God does not transform, does not want to and does not need to.HE Gives us the authenticate Torah,Zabur (psalms ),Injil (Bible ) and Quran to guide humans.HE created prophets to explain the Testaments to humans to explain the how, what when That is HIS Mercy to us the inhabitants of tiny earth amongst the 52 billion galaxies in the Universe He Created.We are His creations, subordinates and servants and are proud and thankful to HIm.
The least we could and should do is to submit (Islam ) to HIM and refrain from complicating and confusing laymen with philosophies and abstracts regarding HIS Essence.Dwelling in Philosophy was a favourite past time of polytheistic Greeks ,Hindus,Atheists.
The need to philosophise and dwelling in spiritual matters all the time could also be the effect of disbelieving in later contaminated scriptures.Hence, the refuge in abstracts.Continuous searching will lead you to the Truth,Insya ALLAH-if God Wills it.
Here is a Question for Mr. Ben Othman
How does one in Islam become spiritual? It is a state of mind? Something happen to you?
Christians believe that at the moment you accept Jesus as the pardon for your sins, the Holy Spirit enters the body. Because it the person's spirit has been made alive. From this point on, if this person sins he must confess to GOD (not man) 1 John 1:9!
When this person sins he has "out of fellowship" but still saved. Once a person accepts Jesus they are saved once and for always. You can not lose it. To get back into "fellowship" this saved person must us 1 John 1:9 which states that if we are faithful to confess our sins he is faithful to forgive and to forgive all unrighteousness. Meaning he will also forgive your sins you didn't know you did.
and Mr. Ben, there is one problem you have. The Torah and the Bible are 100% against what the Quran says. In the OT of the Bible Jesus Christ was predicted that Jesus as the son of God would come and bring salvation. The Quran denies that Jesus was the Son of God. Or that Jesus was the messiah.
Seeing how the Bible CLEARLY does not agree with the Quran even a little bit, how is it you can say "God does not transform, does not want to and does not need to.HE Gives us the authenticate Torah,Zabur (psalms ),Injil (Bible ) and Quran to guide humans."
Take Care!
Mr Christos,
''Another thing; praying 5 times a day is prayer-limitation at best, Paul through thee H.S.
instruct the believers to pray without ceasing.'
The daily 5 times solat are obligatory.Solat is manifestations and actions We prostrate and utter surah and supplications i.e we are communicationg with God directly.This is the formal 'prayers '
Can be carried out individually or in groups in the mosque or anywhere clean.There are also the optional solats for the whole day.
Mr. Othman,
sounds all like tradition, samaritans prayed facing mount gerazim, jews prayed facing
jerusalem, catholics pray facing statues and muslim pray facing mecca, that's all idolatry.
true worship is in Spirit and in Truth consistent with The Word (BIBLE).
Mr Christos,
Facing Makkah or Bacca in the bible, is facing in one direction, signifying unity and solidarity. 1.6 billion Muslims pray in that direction., 5 times a day.the least.
What is an idol or idolatory?
When one prays to a thing other than the One God(Ahad ) that is at the physical existence
i.e statues, cross, pictures , stones ,that is idolatory.By praying one is asking for help or forgiveness from a diety and in the case of idol worship, asking that idol for direct help or intercessation with God.The kaabah does not function as "mini god " or intercessor.
Islam being a practical religion wants adherents to pray by manifesting the shahadah
( No God but Allah and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah ) which is a CONCEPTUAL aspect of prayer AND performing the actions which are PHYSICAL DOING aspect of prayer ; bowing, prostrating facing kaabah.
With due respect your worship in spirit looks like a conceptual prayer only .But if you pray spiritually facing the bible or a cross that is akin to idol worship, unless you do not regard that bible or cross of significance in you prayer.If it is the case, then will not it be better if you do not use the bible or face the cross? But where do you face , what is your posture, when do you pray?
Regards.
Prayer in the direction of macca is idolatry, prayer should be heaven-directed.
we do not pray facing the bible or a cross, catholics do that. one can pray in whatever position but not as a muslim, jew or catholic.
the true worship is in Spirit and in Truth and not in mass religion and indoctrination.
Mr Christos,
You say"prayer should be heaven-directed"
Where or which direction is heaven? People at the bottom of the rotating globe, will be facing downwards, but it is upwards for those at the top.
If you say spiritually, and everything is spiritually referred, what do you eat? A spiritual loaf of bread?
It is not about direction, and the heavens surround the earth anyway.
Spiritually means that YHWH Ruach directs our spirits
and our understanding of the Word.
CONTINUATION____The informal ones are the remembrance 'zikir " carried out loudly or to one self.Allahu akbar (God is great ),Subhanallah ( God the exalted ) hamdulillah ( God the supreme ) are the utterances that can be uttered anytime and continously or intermittently to suit one's choice.Some recite them while doing work., before sleep , after waking up from sleep, before eating etc.The only prohibition is not to utter them in toilets.____We solat, pray,supplicate and remember Allah contnuously non stop.The formal solat is commanded for 5 time daily.Islam is a practical religion and understands the needs of human to work for a living.Islam abhors those that resort to monastic lives and depend on charities.Islam also abhors those that are too material conscious that they forgo remembrance of Allah .As stated in earlier post-the "middle way."____Pigrimage to Mecca the Holy city is only carried out when one can afford it financially .Huge numbers is not a problem.God has given the custodians of the Holy cities of Mecca and Medina ample resources to manage the annual pilgrimage.Saudi Arabia has very abundant resources.When God command something there will be hikmah.HE after all is the PROVIDER.__
Mr Godfear,
You say "How does one in Islam become spiritual"
"'Spritual dimension.""
No incarnation nor state of mind or make believe.
It is by one remembering Allah through zikir and progressing to purify oneself.Thus, doing the obligatory solats, the optional solats, the duas (supplications ) and most important of all fortifyng the very important beliefs of "Laila haila llah Muhamadarusulullah."An effort to get closer to God.
The beliefs followed up by consistent and continuous formal amd informal prayers daily, weekly monthly until death.
"Jesus as Messiah."
Muslims through knowledge in Quran deny that Jesus (pbuh ) son of Mary (pbuher ) is son of God.Jesus is the messiah, not crucified or killed and brought to heavens will descend and kill dajjal.
"
That's what I'm talking about, Your book goes against all history of Jesus. You do know that Jesus is the MOST documented man in history right?
You do know that even the people who hated him wrote about him dieing on the cross and rising again, The Romans, you name it. It's only when you read the Quran does it change history.
I don't see how you can deny that Jesus died and came back to life by the power of God. This is a historical fact. This is not just found in the bible. Many 3rd party accounts show this to be true.
Mr Godfear,
You say "even the people who hated him wrote about him dieing on the cross and rising again, The Romans, you name it"
The Romans were heathens, praying to the sun god.Christmas was made to coincide with the Roman 's ritual of praying to sun god.
( to curry favour and political expediency ? ).The point is how can we trust statements made by pagans on things relating to semitic religions.Likewise can Emperor Constantine , a pagan decide on matters regarding Essence of GOD? No way.
Moreover, the Romans were the colonisers and for political purpose they had to go along with the Jewish unbelievers and state the "death ".Those 3 rd party accounts were as you said "3 rd parties–the Pharisees, confused could''nt care the less Romans., heresays from others.
No malice here, just stating what I believe.
Regards.
The romans prayed to the sun god, the arabs pray to a "allah" and not the God of Israel. The God of Israel has shown time and time again that it He is the True God.
Listen if you want to deny Jesus that's your choice. I just want you to know that the Bible does not agree with the Quran not one little bit. Who ever told you this, doesn't know the bible.
Mr Godfear,
I am not preoccupied in proving that Bible you have now agrees or disagrees with the Quran or vice versa.It has no importance at all !
The point to be conveyed is Muhammad (pbuh ) did not write the Quran for he was an illiterate and the messages he delivered to mankind are from God.The Quran does not copy or in the words of Mr Christos''parroting the Bible "Many verses relating to sciences are not in any of the bibles.Facts on Holy Spirit and Jesus's non crucufication in Quran are in your own words" radically different : from those in the present bible.
These facts are on identifying Who God really is ,of utmost importance and there is wide difference between Quran and bible.When there are differences in primary issues , accusation of copying is baseless.
Thank You
CONTINUATION
The Torah and the Bible are 100% against what the Quran says. ""Seeing how the Bible CLEARLY does not agree with the Quran even a little bit,"
It depends on which bible from the hundreds of versions.The original ones are the predecessors of Quran and the originals do not contradict their messages or between themselves.Where are the original messages in Torah and bible expunged by men? The messages are in the Quran.
"God does not transform, does not want to and does not need to."
Surah 5:72
surah 16:51
This is to answer and refute the concept of trinity which is" plainly speaking" incarnations and transformations in forms and substance.
Which bible? I'm not talking about some "version" of the bible, I'm talking about the original Hebrew and Greek text. The original texts of the bible Old testament and New Testament none of it agree with the Quran.
"Original versions in Greek and Hebrew "
The ones "improved " by Ezra and co ? After the second coming from Babylon?
The pilgrimage to mecca does not work out that well , every year many people are trampled to death and it will only get worse if more muslims can afford to go there.
it seems allah's blessing is not really on the event, is it?
Quran is less trustworthy than old and new Testaments, Surah 5:72 Yeshua never said that
what was quoted in there, also"the fire shall be their dwelling place" contradicts the following verse and it is thanalogical incorrect. (destruction versus punishment).
Surah 16:51 parroting of "you can't serve God and the mammon".
sorry to say but the quran has too many mistakes.
Mr Christos,
Are these surah "parroting of "you can't serve God and the mammon".
16:51 " And God has said " Do not take to worshipping two or more deities.He is the One and Only God;hence, of Me, of Me alone stand in awe.
16:52 " and His is all that is the Heavens and on earth, and to Him (alone ) obedience is always due: will you, then pay reverence to aught but Him?
21:30 ' do not the unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together, then We clove them asunder and We got every living thing out of the water.Will they not then believe ?"
21:33"God is the One Who created the night, the day, the sun and the moon.Each one is travelling in an orbit with its own mortion."
those reconstructions of old testament in the quran are not convincing.
do you really think YHWH will go from old covenant to a new covenant
in order to go to something simular to the old covenant again?
one must be spiritual unconscious to accept that.
Proof of reconstruction?
When Quran says 'orbit with its own motion' it is a reconstruction from which verse?
Mr Christos,
You say "it seems Allah's blessing is not really on the event, is it? "
The mishaps were due to human errors, human lack of organisation and discipline.In short a commendable action of pilgrimage not accompanied by commendable acts of discipline, oraganisations etc. which are what is required for Muslims.We cannot expect His Blessings
if these things are not fulfilled.
A commendable action ,say praying in an old church with hanging beams about to fall on you and you do not take steps to pray at other parts of the church is a commendable but risky action.If you got hurt by that beam falling on you, is your commendable action of praying not blessed by God?
A truly blessed prayer is praying and at the same time managing all risks related to the praying.By that you are not only submitting to Him but recognising and applying the gifts
of faculty of minds and intelligence bestowed by Him.You fulfil the requirements of blessing first then ask for His blessings.Another anology is you take care of your health then ask for His blessings on health.You do your part .
Mr.Othman,
there is counter construction in this surah, anyway it does not prove unicity, same as
elohim echad. also you can not comprehend real polytheism (hinduism) nor the
multi-manifestationalism or differentiate. the other surahs are irrelevant too simular to the old testament.
Mr. Othman,
Jibreel and isa of the quran (put blame upon them) are not Gabriel and Yeshua of the bible.
Angels do not have the indwelling of H.S. but have the spirit of holiness.
incarnation is not a greek concept the devil used it in Gan Eden.
furthermore you project a hinduist perception towards incarnation.
but the manifestation of Yeshuwa in Yeshua yr 0-33 is a totally different concept.
God does not transform according to you. does not sound truthful for YHWH can not be
contained in the entire universe but he could come down in various manifestations.
you are projecting human view-points on the Supreme Being according to the greek logic.
why should we submit to dead religion (form-christianity, judaism, islam)? if there is a living
faith in the LIVING YAHWEH in Spirit and in Truth by Yeshuwa lead through the Ruach under
His Kabod. as written "people perish because of lack of knowledge/revelation".
there are charismatic groups within christianity that have too much revelation other groups
none whatsoever. still the picture is even worse in the other worldreligions.
Without the Ruach you are no match for the adversary. Iesu Christi Via, veritas et Vita!
Mr Godfear,
Thank you for the invitation but beg to decline.Princapally because to me God is 'Ahad"
One and only One–no transforming or demarciation into three parts ; God in heavens, in Jesus to be visible to man and in spirit.Not acceptable and with due respect it is similar to Hiduism-.It is men's fantasy and stretching of his imagination.Do the scriptures say that ? No, it is man's interpretation and interpolation of messages.It is twisting of clear facts to suit political expediency to please the mighty Roman empire.
God bless the unitarians of that period.
Therefore when the principal concept of the Essence of God is doubtful, do I need to study the elaborations on the subsidiary concepts? The Quran satisfy my need for knowing about God and the messages delivered through His mighty prophet,Muhammad (PBUH )
Muhammad (pbuh ) is only a messenger and a prophet.Prophets like him,Abraham,Moses ,Jesus (pbu on them )were not after self glory or fame.In fact their vocations were risky and some lost their lives.
To be continued,
We are about to perform our mass prayers.
Your stuck on the "three parts" thing. You see Abraham, Moses, Jesus, etc all in the OT and referenced in the NT of the Bible. Was Mohammad just left out? Did God forget him?
We do not believe there is God in 3 parts, or that there is three Gods. We do not think that. Another way to look at it is that it is God and God works with man in three ways. It's all the same God.
Mr Godfear,
You say "We do not believe there is God in 3 parts, or that there is three Gods. We do not think that. Another way to look at it is that it is God and God works with man in three ways. It's all the same God. "
Our manifestations or declarations are reflections of our convictions When I believe that God is Ahad , I will not waiver an inch in my beliefs and in my declarations.The Oneness is absolute;God is the Master of His Creations.He dose not need to "work' with man for He has servants: the angels, the Prophets
to carry out His Commands or if He Wills it, "kun fa ya kun: He says be and it is created.And His servants need not work in 3 ways or 3 methods.Three is not a special thing, it is just a number.
Thank You.
Greetings Mr Godfear,
You say "NAME one thing of God that Proves Muhammad was from God?
It is the Quran-Miracle of all miracles.It is from God.
surah 10 verse 5 ' God is the One Who made the sun a SHINING glory and the moon a LIGHT……."
Surah 25 verse 53 'God is the One Who has let free the two seas, one is agrreable and sweet, the other salty and bitter,He placed a barrier between them, a partition that is forbidden to pass"
SURAH 23 VERSE 14 ' We fashioned the thing which clings into a chewed lump of flesh and We fashioned the chewd flesh into bones and We clothed the bones with intact flesh."
None of the verses even say anything about Muhammad… how do those verses prove Muhammad was from God? or of God? Where is the prediction of Muhammad in the OT?
Mr Godfear,
Those verses relate to the science of Astronomy, physics,oceanography and biology.These were revealed 1400 years ago and man only knew about these facts about 100 years ago.The point is these facts were delivered to Muhammad (pbuh) via the Quran 1400 years ago.The Prophet was an illiterate
and durng that period Europe was in'darkness ", India, Egypt and China though civilised but the sciences were not developed.
These verses are delivered to Muhammad (pbuh ) from God.It proved beyond doubt that he is a prophet of God.These verses are amongst the 6222 verses in the Quran and the Quran is from God.
Mr Godfear,
The prophecy in OT by Moses (pbuh ) that "there will come someone like me"
That person was Muhammad (Pbuh ).
The problem you have is that nothing proves Muhammad was from God. Or even lived a Godly life. It's all based on a religion. If it was of God Muhammad would of had the authority, but he didn't.
God gave the power to Jesus, and the followers of Jesus but not to Muhammad and his followers? You see my point?
Mr Godfear,
You say "Or even lived a Godly life. It's all based on a religion. If it was of God Muhammad would of had the authority, but he didn't. "
If you mean a Godly life akin to monastic /monk type of life-ala Buddhist,Hindu and some Catholics monks, depending on charities and handouts to live in return for utterance of prayers , then ALL Prophets did not fit that description:
Abraham (pbuh )–married 2 wives–reared cattle, goats and a wealthy man
he was a Babylonian.His descendants formed the states of
Israel Judea and Arabia.
Moses (pbuh )—-married–reared goats-Leader of nascent Bani Israel
(Muslim Jews ) a statesman and military leader
CONTINUATION
Jesus (pbuh —-bachelor (ascended to heaven at age 30 )—bleached .
clothes for living–close friends were the bleachers.A great
leader of men
Muhammad (pbuh )—reared goats and trade for living.
with Prophethood-became leader,
administrator of Islamic state.
Married- 9 wives( as compassion taking care
of the wives of those who died for Islam ) excellent
military strategist and motivator of men.
So where does the idea of monkship and secluding oneself in monastries and temples come from? Man must work for a living.
CONTINUATION
David (pbuh )—– married-ironsmith–maker of weapons-leader of Bani Israel
excellent singer
Solomon (pbuh )–married–king of powerful Muslim Jewish Empire–excellent
emperor
Mr Godfear,
You say "God gave the power to Jesus, and the followers of Jesus but not to Muhammad and his followers? You see my point? "
If power is miracle then as stated earlier the miracle to Muhammad (pbuh ) is the Holy Quran that is preserved unchanged to this day.
If you mean military power to states like USA assuming USA is a Christian state.Also if it means military power to zionist Israel BUT Israel is not a Christian state? All that are 'mirages–the Great Roman Empire fell so will other empires.It is sunnatullah–God's Decree -He Will take powers from those who did fasids( injustice and cruelty ) and Gives it to others.Powers were taken from the Romans, the Mongols and the Ottomans for basically the same reasons.
He Will take away power from USA just like what He had done to USSR.He Will take away power from Zionists and ingratitude Jews like what happened in 563 BC.
CONTINUATION
The raison de 'etre for withdrawal of powers by HIm is when those in powers
did injustice to His creations; killing of men, animals, polluting the planet due to greed etc. and most iimportantly not submitting to HIm and only Him. He Will take away powers when those in power are not fulfilling their responsibilities entrusted to them —economic turmoil–condoning usury–not guiding atheists
to God
Thank You.
Mr.Othman.
Why moslems do not eat Swine?? Do you have even only one verse from the Qur'an says that it is sin to eat Swine??.
Mr Abiero,
This question is as ancient as time itself.I am sure you have the answer,If not you can refer to any good translation of Quran .If you want, you can write and tell what the translation says and bring up your next question….it is your next question which you are anxious to forward, are'nt you?
Mr. Ben Othman
Care to us about this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy_xBo7nBvA
Enlighten us to how this brings you closer to God? The Bible says not to mutilate the body and the ones who do are worshiping satan.
Please explain to me how this is different from any other Satan inspired religion.
Have you been to mecca yet? Have you went there? Do you want me to tell you about the reports I have from people who have went there?
Mr Godfear,
THAT represents less than 20% of what people who called themselves Muslims do.They are Shi' ah and obsessed with political problems that happened 1100 years ago.Shi'ah means ' breaking away' from main stream .It has nothing to do with God and islam–they were demonstrating their frutsrations at the death of Ali 's son at the hands of rivals .
Care to show what the majority of 80% do?
We know some catholics do go to extremes and they are about 50% of christians population of the world.Do they represent christianity.?
The point is religion and what adherents of religion do can be different.It happened as I mentioned earlier when political issues based on parochial biasness came into center stage and religion is mixed with political agendas.
What I brought to you is Islam as practiced by the majority according to the Quran and sunnah.
Regards.
Let me ask you another question, How you do feel about Shi' ah law? And do you follow it?
Please when you refer to Catholics, please do not act like you are referring to myself. I am not a Catholic and it is my belief that the Catholic religion is false as it rejects Jesus Christ and replaces him with False Idol and False gods. In a nut shell Catholics do not follow the Bible. Thus would not be "Christian". Trying to lump all people together who claim to be Christian in to one pot doesn't mean they are. Catholics are not "50% of the "Christians" as they do not follow the Bible. You are trying to put true Christians into a group of a false religion. Listen it wouldn't take me more than 3 paragraphs to prove that the Catholics follow a false religion. THEY are not "Christian" nor following the Christian way of life. So your reasoning is incorrect.
I understand what you have learned is that the Catholic Church is "Christianity" I am telling you it is not Christianity it uses the name of Jesus to lure people into a false religion which has nothing to do with Jesus or the Bible. True Christians are NOT Catholic!
Let me ask another question. Is Hamas wrong fighting Israel? Do you condone or condemn what Hamas is about and doing?
Greetings Mr Godfear,
Your question "How you do feel about Shi' ah law'
Generally, they are monotheistics but there some sects between them that are totally out.
Shi'a law generally are from the same sources as mainstrean i.e Quran ,hadiths and their religious leaders (imams ) opinions.BUt the difference is in hadiths they only quote narrations from Ali and his family and their Imams decfee are final.
The other main difference is the Shia's are too obsessed and partisan on Ali (ra ) the 4 th caliph.The bloody rituals you just saw are innovations by them.Islam does not condone such acts.To be honest, I do not know and do not follow their laws.
I THANK GOD FOR THIS PROGRAMME. I HAVE PASSED THROGH PEOPLES OPINIONS AND FOR MY SELF ICAN SAY THE BIBLE IS QUIT DIFFERENT FROM THE QURAN YOU CANT COMPARE IT, IT IS LIKE LIGHT AND THE DARKNESS. CHRISTIANITY IS THE FAITH TO JESUS CHRIST OUR SAVIOUR AND MUSLIM IS THE PEOPLES STRUGGLE TO FIND GOD. THERE FORE IS THE RELIGION OF THE PEOPLE WHILE CHRISTIANIT GOD HIMSELF FINDING THE HUMAIN BEING WHO LOST INTO THE VALLEY OF DARKNESS.MAY THE LORD OPEN THE EYES OF OUR FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS WHO HAVE LOST INTO THE RELIGION WHICH HAVE NO HOPE (MUSLIM).
Gentlemen,Greetings,
Mr Godfear,
Mr Christos
Mr Odwar,
To the website owner, please accept my gratitude for allowing rebuttals to be published.Very few Christian websites grant this facility to visitors.To you gentlemen, please accept my apologies if what I have written were offensive, no malice intended.
We have reached a point where I have attempted to PROVE THAT:
1.Quran is from God in original form preserved to this day.
2.Quran was not written by Muhammad (pbuh ) for he was only a messenger, an illiterate .
3.Messages on sciences in the Quran are far ahead of man for it is only in the last 50 years that man discovered creations mentioned in the Quran 1400 years ago.These proved they are from God.
4.Quran does not copy the Bible.There are wide differences on what the Quran says about Jesus,
his death and his status.Likewise, there is a big difference on who the Holy Spirit is.Therefore these fundamental differences in principal concepts proved beyond doubt that Quran does not copy the bible or any scriptures.
CONTINUATION
5. If there are similarities in description of EVENTS that could be due to the fact that Quran, original Torah, Injil, Zabur are from the same ONE source.That is our belief.Islam is not founded by Muhammad (pbuh ) and in our belief Islam is a continuation and culminations of the beliefs of Muslim Babylonians lead by Abraham (pbuh ), Muslim Jews lead by Ishaq,Jacob,Joseph,Moses and Aaron (pbu them ), Muslim reformist Jews lead by Jesus (pbuh ) and Arab Muslims and Muslims lead by Muhammad (Salallahu alayhi wassalam )
6..Quran does not condone unnecessary violence.Force are to be resorted to for self defense only and Muslims to desist immediately when the other side desist.
7.Islam is for all mankind, it is simple and centers on unicity of God.No frills no priestly rituals for each Muslim communicates directly with Him.The utmost most important thing is to believe and declare the shahadah-there is no god but God (Allah) and Muhammad is a messenger of Allah )
and followed up by solat and other commanded rituals.
Thank You and Best Regards.
Mohamad Halim Ben Othman
Kuala Lumpur MALAYSIA,
1 quran is from what god?
2 quran was wrong transmitted on purpose.
3 science is too variable and can be confirmed as wall as denied by any religion.
4 quran reconstructs biblical texts.
5 the tenach people were not muslims.
6 there are 100 million extremists who will use force anyway.
7 islam is not for all mankind for it will always divide people.
unicity of YHWH as interpreted by jews and muslims is simplification as well as
restriction, limitation, god-obscuring and distancing. muslims will remain slaves,
jews will remain servants, christians will remain friends; they can only become
more than a son/daughter through YHM lead by the Ruach under the Kabod.
1.Quran is from God Who created the Heavens and earths and things in between them
2.Quran is guidance for mankind, a mercy from God Who Creates 52 billion galaxies.
3. other religion than Islam cannot make themselves compatible with science.Science is knowledge .To deny science using whatever excuse, is a fatal error.
4.Quran does not reconstruct bible.Bible has not the answer to science as Quran's.
5.Islam is submission to God,Moses and Jesus submitted to God.Those that submit to God are called Muslims.
6.Extremists exists even amongst 'spiritual people.For excessively associating things you believe and pray to a spiritual aspect only , is a form of extremism.
7.Those that submit to God's Will are Muslims and embrace Islam.They are the believers .Those that pray to idols be it in the form of man-god (Christianity in whatever denominations ) or statues,or atheist are not.
8 Your Ruach approach lacks the very thing essential to man for guidance in his submission to God , a book..Without a book, you will be like a 'headless chicken" and ends into the arms of that creature called satan.
1 quran is a test text just like other religious books.
2 it can't be guide for mankind, it ignores YHWH directions.
3 science can be used by any religion.
4 quran is about the existentional state of mankind not about
scientific reality nor about spiritual truth.
5 islam is submission to a political, societal, religious system,
which will only enslave mankind.
6 extremism is more prevalent in islam than in any other religion.
7 True believers are not talking like that. muslims are slaves and
not free, only the YHM can set you free.
8 The Bible is the most complete spiritual book there is but you have shown time and time again that you can't understand it.
quran, vedas buddhas writings are all easy to comprehend for the
Bible you need real faith and real Spiritually.
If you are not with YHWH your under satans power and not free,
You can't stone the devil but he will "visit"the miuslim world on
a regular basis and you won't like it.
I am a slave to the Creator.
But I am a free slave ,not shackled by sins committed by others.
I am accountable to what I do and do not do.
Quran is compatible with knowledge, with scientific facts.Others including bible are not and find lame excuses to dismiss importance of science.
Extremism is perpetrated more by non Muslims.Detonating Atom bombss on fellow humans is the most cowadly and barbarious act committed.It was by Christian America.
I do not believe in certain parts of bible especially those referring to essence of God.They are narrations after narrations and reports on what Peter or Paul said
Satan is a scapegoat for human self indulgence in inventions and innovations.Trinity is an invention.
CONTINUATION
HAMAS
As far as I know, Hamas is fighting for Palestines' rights.Unlike PLO they do not believe in 2 Palestines states .They view that Israel is illegitimate because the process of creation of Israel by zionists in 1948 was through force, intimidation , undemocratic and unjust.I share that view.In 1948, there was Hagganah,Macabbee groups doing what Hamas is doing now.If one thinks what Hagganah and the like did was right because the ends justified the means and they now have a state,why should one fault Hamas for thinking on same line?
For the Israelis you' "live by the sword and you die by the sword".So stop complaining.
Hamas is not fighting for the palestinians and their rights. no one does, jordan should have
been the palestinian state, but the jordanian brothers killed more palestinians than israel.
The jewish resistance can not be compared to the intifadas.the mentioned groupsl always warned in advance for bomb-attacks in order not to create loss of human life. hamas and
plo always want to kill as many jews as possible.
the jewish groups did nothave the destruction of the united kingdom in their charter.
hamas has the destruction of israel in their charter as first priority.
If israel would have acted like hamas/plo/hizbollah there would not have been any palestinians left, the sinai would still be occupied, lebanon and jordan would have been satellite states.
Mr Christos,
You may justify what haganah, Stern Gang and Irgun did for justification sake.Nothing justifies murders and killings even using so called ' pre warning " tactics.That was to drive the original landowners away and in the event they refuse to run away they will be murdered.! It is same thing as murder.
The capture and condemnation to Babylon and the unfortunate incident in ww 2 were attributed to arrogance and false pride of some Jews and the whole Jewry paid the price.The talk implying that Israel could conquer and REMAIN in sinai,Jordan and Lebanon is reminiscent of that attitude.BUT in Lebanon ,in Sinai, zionist Israel RAN away .
As for HAMAS 's Charter, it is suprising that mighty zionist Israel is agitated. by a powerless people's movement armed with desperate suicide bombers whose family died at the hands of Israel.If zionist Israel can create satellites out of Jordan and Sinai as claimed ( and more suicide bombers ) why cannot it wipe off Hamas?
Mr.Othman
you proved to be ignorant; i was not justifying what the jewish resistance did,
i only say that you can not equate it with the crimes of hamas.
Israel did conquer the entire Sinai, parts of Lebanon and Jordan and could
have done more. it is always international pressure that the israeli accommodate.
they did not ran away, that's the problem with arabs; they get their ass kicked,
turn around and declare it to be a victory.
Your heroes of hamas hide behind skirts and little children and when the women
and children die because of this warcrime-behaviour, they all cry foul.
while israel tries to avoid loss of human life as much as possible, hamas makes
it sport to kill as much people as possible. they do nothing for the good of the palestinian people; they use all the money for weapons, bombs and propaganda.
Ierushalaim will be the stone that will hurt all the world because they are not trying to mess with people or land but with YHWH El Shaddai.
Mr Christos,
Hamas are not my heroes.But I understand their predicaments.I also understand the suffering suffered by Jews in WW2 and they suffered due to some arrogance of a few Jews.
It is interesting you mentioned "hide behind skirts thing.Is not zionist Israel hiding behind skirts of USA? What if USA falls?
The entire world will turn against Israel and you will see
who is really YHWH, russia, iran and turkey, syria will turn
to israel and the african and arabian nation, the invaders
in israel will be destroyed by YHWH. the EU and the easterm forces will collide and YHM will end the battles
after harmageddon.
By the way Israel started to receive american aid after the
1967 war and the israeli's will find other ways if the USA
stops aiding.
Mr Christos,
You say "it is always international pressure that the israeli accommodate"
That is an acknowledgement that Israel cannot do according to her whims and fancies, cannot have the cake and eats it as well.
In fact, it is an obligation to international body of nations THAT FACILITATED THE CREATION OF ZIONIST ISRAEL.In the first place.Sort of " We helped you but you tow the line".
Actually the international community always worked against the formation of the jewish state because satan
wanted to prevent that at all cost but you can't mess with YHWH's plans.
the difference is that Israel has been descent (not to kill all)compared to its neighbours (who would have killed all), arabs never allowed the formation of a palestinian state.
Gaza is not a sign of weakness on Israel's account but of
goodwill, but got only missiles in return.
Also i said IF israel would have acted like hamas, things would have been different.
because they didn't; it would have made them simular to the nazi's, and the
palestinians would have been only a historical fact nowadays.
So you can't pretend that the israeli are as bad as you believe.
you are not very objective, are you?
Mr Christos,
I give credit when and where it is due; I admit that I have not heard of any sexual crimes committed by Israeli soldiers on the colonised palestinian , that is a plus point.
Weak reply Othman,
It is like saying; they didn't rape, but they killed.
So what is it war or peace?
if palestinians talk, walk and act war how can you speak
about peace?
Palestinian are not colonised but confined due to their
behaviour.
Tinithy Mwakenja,
BIBLE:
God said to Jesus, "You are my son today I have begotten you" [Heb.5:5]
God said to David, "You are my son today I have begotten you"[Psalm2:7]
Which one? or are you confused ? Confused people are "in darkness".
BUT for as you say- RELIGION WHICH HAVE NO HOPE (MUSLIM). We Muslims are definite and sure that God does not begets nor begotten-No confusion whatsoever.
Proof of spiritual ignorance and lack of the diakrises of the Ruach.
Ps 2:7 and Heb 5:5 are both about YHM.
You can be sure of what you believe as a muslim it does not make it true.
This text were before any creation was even divinely designed.
What does not make it true? or which is true?
Those statements in English seem plain and simple to me.I read them as any other
reader of English would read them–.that god begotten jesus and also begotten david and they are both sons.
In Hebrew or Aramic, "son " is a mark of affection and respect attached to somebody and in these cases both great men were great prophets of God.Adam (pbuh ) is also considered a "son" of God.It is a title. Similarly.Aaron (Haroun ) pbuh is addressed as brother of Mary (PBUher ) even though they were not related and about 1500 years separate them.The present bible translated from Aramic to Greek,Latin and English "forgets " to explain those things to its readers.
The text is true and it is not one or the other, it is one statement about YHM before everything was created. David wrote this psalm inspired by the Spirit but was not said about him but it is about Jehoshuva.
the mark of affection calling someone son is also known in many other cultures.
Moses & Aaron had a sister called maryam, so the quranic logic does not make sense here, they were Levites, Joseph and Mary (NT) were from the tribe of Judah.
People know about philology (biblical hebrew/aramaic/greek ) and semantics
moreover there is revelation by the Spirit and deduction in the Spirit.
Mr.Othman.
Why don't you answer the questions?? The word of God is not political, so don't talk like a politician please.
TIMTHY MWANKENJA is the one trying to be a politician.
Votre erreur!
Mwankenja was not trying to be a politician.
A politician announce, declare and talk FIRST before thinking.
You are really getting confused
people can tell by your comments addressing the wrong .people
"David wrote this psalm inspired by the Spirit but was not said about him but it is about Jehoshuva. "Is it implied, translated as such? When god said to david '' you are my son'' is actually jehoshuva been mentioned? Plain English will mean it is directed at David unless specifically mentioned that it is jehoshuva.
"
No, David wrote it under the inspiration of the Spirit, but it was not about him.
Mr Christos,
"No, David wrote it under the inspiration of the Spirit, but it was not about him. "
Your exegesis?
Context of Psalm 2:7 in verses 8-9 refers to the Millennium and therefore can not be
about david because he never reached such a stage in his life that he possesed the ends of the earth (but YHM will).
V7 conveys Jehoshuva's words through the Ruach to david. (this statement was from before creation). the other context v 5-6 is Yah speaking about YHM.
Any proof that it was not about David (pbuh )?
Proof is in the Psalm itself, you really have biblical understanding problem.
CONTINUATION
Moses & Aaron had a sister called maryam, so the quranic logic does not make sense here, they were Levites, ''
There is no confusion here if that is what you meant ;
Mary (.Maryam's )(pbuher ) uncle is Prophet Zachariah(Zakaria ) (pbuh ) a pious muslim Jew who could be a lawi (levite ), Prophets Moses(Musa ) (pbuh ) and Aaron(Haroun ) (pbuh ) could also be from lawi clan.(Quran does not give details on clanships for the holy Book is not an autobiography of people ) When Quran mentions that Mary is a "sister " of Aaron it is specifically referring to Mary the mother of Jesus (Isa )(pbuh ).
In fact not even once Quran ever mentions Mary(Maryam ) as sister of Moses ( pbuh ) .If is that Maryam then the words " sister of Moses ' should be mentioned more.
That is why the mary of the quran is not the mary of the Bible.
Mr Christos,
The Only Mary (Maryam ) pbuher mentioned in the Quran is Mary the mother of Jesus (Isa ) pbuh.A whole surah is named after her.
As to whether it is the same Mary as in the many versions of the bible, it holds no issue with Muslims.As stated in earlier posts, I am not comparing Quran ul karim with other scriptures, just stating what it says on issues raised.
I just wanted to note that how you said "Many versions of the Bible" as if there are "many" versions of the bible.
Listen, I want to point this out to you so that you at least hear it clearly.
There is only ONE original text of the Old Testament and New Testament. Only ONE, the dead sea scrolls back up that it is completely unchanged and perfect.
What you are confusing is "translations". There are many "translations" of both the Qur'an and the Bible, how else would someone who reads English, or Spanish, etc read it.
So just that it's clear and you understand, There is only one "version" that is true and correct. We still have it and able to check "any translation" against it.
I know in Islam you are taught that Christianity is wrong and one of the proofs is the many "versions" of the BIble, however, that is completely FALSE. There is only one original texts of the Bible. Any translations made into say English can easily be checked against the original texts. And we do, many pastors in America learn the Greek and Hebrew so they can teach from the original texts along with the English translations.
Mr God fear,
I am told the Dead Sea scrolls are writings of Habakuk.Mind telling me what it is all about?
Mr Godfear,
What is the original text ?
Mr Godfear,
You say "in Islam you are taught that Christianity is wrong and one of the proofs is the many "versions" of the BIble,"
With due respect, we believe the original text of the old and new testaments have been contaminated by human hands,Even though it is not 100 % contamination but the many versions of the contaminated text renders them unreliable when the essence of Godship is referred to.The original text to you is considered not original to us.
Regards.
Mr Godfear,
Your understanding on the originality of the bible is based on the premis that it is original without checking its originality.That is blind faith.A test as to whether a Book is from God is that there are no contradictions between messages in the Bible itself.With due respect there are many contradictions in the Bible.
The issue of lack of originality and authencity is further compounded by the many different
exegesis leading to many versions of translations.
To us Muslims. Mosaic and Jesus's teaching have been contaminated by human hands and there are no original Taurat (Torah ) Injil (Bible )Zabur (psalms ) left. For unlike the Quran,there are no memorisers of the text , making it easy target for human manipulations.
Mr Godfear,
You say 'Either Jesus was God, or he was not God and was a liar. "
"ONLY THROUGH HIM" would mean one has to comply with his teachings,
him and the father are one does not mean Jesus is god, otherwise a subsequent verse will be "pray to me, I am god."
Prophets do not lie. In Quran Jesus specifically say that he is not god
This is where the Muslims over look what Jesus really said. Jesus said it correctly, you are blinded by religion so you can't see it.
Jesus said it right here
READ IT!
John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. <<<<<<<
John 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. <<<<<<<
John 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
John 16:24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
John 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs(Believers in Jesus); heirs of God, and joint-heirs(Believers in Jesus) with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Why won't you see that I have shown you many times, Jesus called himself God that Jesus and the Father are one. Now I have shown you that all true Christians pray "in his name" It's the seal we put upon our prayers to the Father with his son's name so that the message has the authority of Jesus with the credentials of GOD!!!! Thus true Christian prayer is HEARD!
Ben no body here hates you, I'm only trying to show you the truth. That Jesus is EVERYTHING he said he was! That Qur'an does everything it can to hide and conceal who and what Jesus IS! Why? SO THAT YOU WON'T BE SAVED! It has you wrapped up in religion, trying to earn heaven by works, when Jesus CLEARLY said works will not SAVE YOU! That ONLY though Jesus will you enter the Kingdom of GOD!
It's very simple. God made it VERY simple. Believe that Jesus was from God, who was sent to PAY for your SINS so that YOU do not have too! John 3:16 and John 3:36 show this very CLEARLY!
JESUS SAID THIS
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
To end it..
John 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Ben, open your heart, take off the blinders. Read these verses word by word and tell me that they are not true. If you come to these verses with an open mind and heart, God will show you they are real. YOU have to WANT TO KNOW, if you come at God with a hardened heart and a closed mind, you'll never see it!
Mr Godfear,
For starters ,where is the verse from Jesus directly saying " I am God, pray to me "
The verses you posted can also mean that the "son" is a prophet.
I have been trying to show you many times.
John 6:35-40
Joh 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Joh 6:36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
There is one God. That God came to earth for 33 years. But when we say "God came to earth" he never left Heaven at the same time. That's the part you don't understand. God didn't leave Heaven. He came to earth (Jesus) and was in Heaven at the same time. This is why Jesus spoke like this. It makes perfect sense and is perfectly logical.
God was still in heaven and also God was standing before them. This is why Jesus said He and the Father are ONE. IE: ONE GOD. He had to tell us this in such a way our human minds could understand it.
Jesus commanded us to pray to God the father (remember God never left Heaven when God came to earth, quit putting God in a box and making up the rules of which God can operate) he said "After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, "
THE REASON why Jesus said this was because God's official mailing address is HEAVEN! Not earth! (At least not while Jesus' isn't here as the King, but that's coming)
If Jesus had said "pray to me" while in a earthly body on earth, what happens when you can't go and meet him face to face and submit your prayer to him? Yes, this would of been very confusing after Jesus went back to heaven now wouldn't it?
So Jesus taught you pray to the father.
Now you asked for proof that Jesus said pray to him right? HERE YOU GO!
Who did Jesus say he was?
John 10:30 I and my Father are one. — JESUS IS GOD!
Who did Jesus say to pray to? THE FATHER IN HEAVEN!
I don't see how you can not put this together. You are blinded to the TRUTH! Your religion has you so blind to the truth sitting right in front of you. WAKE UP BEN!!! The True God has called you. He invites you! You think it's coincidence what your here reading this? God is trying his best to reach you before it's to late. Right now. Throw off all that confusion you have. Open your mind. Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of Kings! It will be JESUS who restores the earth and RULES IT for the 1000 year rein! God's kingdom on EARTH! IT WILL BE JESUS SITTING UPON THE THRONE IN the New Jerusalem that ascends from Heaven!
I leave you with this…
John 15:23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Mr Godfear,
I interpret them as Jesus the prophet entrusted with delivering God's message to the lost sheep of Israel.
"I and my Father are one. —
"John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
And the BIG BIG BIG problem you have sir, is that in the original texts of the Bible Jesus called himself GOD many times. Jesus said that ONLY THOUGH HIM would anyone get to heaven.
That sir is a huge issue for any false religion. Wouldn't you say?
I can show you the original text and I would like to see how you would get around that Jesus did call himself the messiah, God and that him and the father are ONE!
No this is not from some erroneous "translation" this is straight out of the original texts. The OT also says this, the NT says this. I don't know how you could just disclaim the whole Bible just so you can make your point that Jesus was a no body. Either Jesus was God, or he was not God and was a liar.
Which was it?
Mr Godfear.
"ONLY THOUGH HIM would anyone get to heaven. "
Thank you.But did he say "I am God?" Only through him may mean his followers have to abide by his teachings to go to heavens.
"him and the father are ONE! But did he say he and father is God?
It may look trivial and silly to you but on Godship, we want specific commands , not words requiring exegesis or translations.
Mr Godfear,
God and that him and the father are ONE– is not the same as Jesus (pbuh ) telling that he is god.
Mr Godfear,
You said " Either Jesus was God, or he was not God and was a liar. "
Did Jesus (pbuh ) say he was God and commanded his disciples to pray TO him?
Quran 5:116
And Behold! Allah will say:
"O Jesus the son of Mary!
Didst thou say unto men.
"Take me and my mother
For two gods beside Allah? ''
he will say "Glory to Thee "
Never could I say
What I had no right.
( To say ) Had I said ,such a thing
thou wouldst indeed have known it……
Jesus did not say he was god and he was not a liar ( prophets do not lie )
Sorry, there were too many yeshua's with a mother named maryam,
and reading the quran about them, one can conclude that they are not
the Yeshua and Maryam of the Bible.
Mr Christos,
" one can conclude that they are not
the Yeshua and Maryam of the Bible. "
That is your choice and decision.We Muslims are not concerned whether it is the same Isa (Jesus ) pbuh .What we believe is Jesus did not die on the cross.Of more importance is the Jesus (Isa ) mentioned in the Quran is not god or son of god–God forbids!
It is not choice or decision; it is fact that Yehoshuwa ha Moschiach does not
appear in the quran. that you don't believe that Christ died on a cross, that is your choice and decision.
The isa masu mentioned in the quran was one of the many imposters.
YHM is YHWH as well as Ruach, Malak YHWH and Kabod YHWH.
If you want to stick to your extreme oneness as described in judaism and
islam, than your going after traditions.
I got word from the living YHWH concerning tradition a few weeks ago;
that it had slapped me for far too long.
thus i can say from experience that it wont get you far, but go right ahead!
Fact ; isa and mary (quran) are not Jesus and Mary (bible).
choice/decision; deny that Christ died on the cross.
a choice to remain in sin and to remain subject to traditions.
The isa masu mentioned in the quran is one of the many imposters that
lived during a period of about 300 hundred years.
YHWH is YAH, YHM, Ruach, Malak yhwh, Kabod yhwh, anything less
is denial of the YHWH supreme being and falls short of the truth.
Your god forbidst according to interpretations and traditions of men,
so it just another god or you are serving the animistic moongod.
That's your freedom of choice and your decision,
but it won't guarantee real Freedom.
The comments flow on this subject has not been smooth unfortunately;
The question about Hamas by Godfear was mistaken for Mwankenya's.
The attributes of god were not properly addressed.
which proves the limitations of allah in islam.
Lack of the Ruach YHWH hinders understanding scriptures.
That the Bible can be read as any other book is a mistake that even millions of christians
make. in the biblical hermeneutics the same assumption is made too, which explains the
diversity in the exegesis that resulted in so many different denominations.
Could it be that diversity in exegesis leading to hundreds of denominations is due to some alterations on some verses made by human hands in the span of 2,000 years? Erasmus perhaps?
No, it is the different interpretation that causes a variety in exegesis.
also: Erasmus was a humanist
I noticed that the site administration did not publish my comment posted yesterday,
probably it is too charismatic and to threatening to "conventionality".
it does not matter because it is better to let people describe their rituals in dead religion
rather than register real events conveying truth.
bad examples corrupt; it is like the maniac mainstream media reporting political activism
instead of what is really happening in the world.
It might be interesting but it is not constructive.
The diversity in exegesis started with Paul's innovation on essence of God.Go back to unitarian approach – then only the bible 's messages can be really understood , even spiritually.
There has always been diversity,
the unitarian approach is not necessary to understand the Bible.
Spiritual understanding can only come through the Spirit of YHWH.
Mr.Othman.
I would prefer a verse to verse discussions and questions and answers will be more suitable to bring us to a point of destionation.For instance the all apostles of the Bible are quite different from those in the Qur'an but for suprise their names are the sames in the Bible and Qur'an except Muhammed S.W. even God in the Qur'an is not that named in the Bible,i can give you a scripture prove on that,therefore let's go verse to verse and questions and answers.For example,Qur'an can't prove that it is sin to eat Swine,So why moslems hate Swine??
Mr Odwar,
That verses posted earlier where God said to both Jesus and David that they are his sons, is still awaiting your response. Is it based on 'inspirations' or something abstract too.? Or are they of different agestoo ?
Mr.Othman.
I would prefer a verse to verse discussion and questions and answers will be more suitable to bring us to a point of destination.For instance the all apostles of the Bible are quite diffrent from those in the Qur’an but for suprise their names are the sames in the Bible and Qur’an except Muhammed S.W,even God in the Qur’an is not that named in the Bible.I can give you a scripture prove on that.Therefore let’s go verse to verse and quetions and answers.For example,Qur’an could not prove that it is sin to eat Swine,so why moslems hate Swine??
RE: Mr Godfear,
You say 'Either Jesus was God, or he was not God and was a liar. "
"ONLY THROUGH HIM" would mean one has to comply with his teachings,
him and the father are one does not mean Jesus is god, otherwise a subsequent verse will be "pray to me, I am god."
Prophets do not lie. In Quran Jesus specifically say that he is not god
—————————————————-
This is where the Muslims over look what Jesus really said. Jesus said it correctly, you are blinded by religion so you can't see it.
Jesus said it right here
READ IT!
John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. <<<<<<<
John 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. <<<<<<<
John 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
John 16:24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
John 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs(Believers in Jesus); heirs of God, and joint-heirs(Believers in Jesus) with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Why won't you see that I have shown you many times, Jesus called himself God that Jesus and the Father are one. Now I have shown you that all true Christians pray "in his name" It's the seal we put upon our prayers to the Father with his son's name so that the message has the authority of Jesus with the credentials of GOD!!!! Thus true Christian prayer is HEARD!
Ben no body here hates you, I'm only trying to show you the truth. That Jesus is EVERYTHING he said he was! That Qur'an does everything it can to hide and conceal who and what Jesus IS! Why? SO THAT YOU WON'T BE SAVED! It has you wrapped up in religion, trying to earn heaven by works, when Jesus CLEARLY said works will not SAVE YOU! That ONLY though Jesus will you enter the Kingdom of GOD!
It's very simple. God made it VERY simple. Believe that Jesus was from God, who was sent to PAY for your SINS so that YOU do not have too! John 3:16 and John 3:36 show this very CLEARLY!
JESUS SAID THIS
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
To end it..
John 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Ben, open your heart, take off the blinders. Read these verses word by word and tell me that they are not true. If you come to these verses with an open mind and heart, God will show you they are real. YOU have to WANT TO KNOW, if you come at God with a hardened heart and a closed mind, you'll never see it!
Mr Godfear,
John 14:28–." for my father is greater than I "
If Jesus is God he is the imperfect God.What is imperfect is not God .
John 12:45 " And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me "
John 17:21 ' "…..that the world may believe that thou hast sent me "
John 17:23 ",,,,that the world may know that thou hath sent me .
John 17 :8 "',,,,they have believe that thou didst send me "
Should God be sent ? That shows he is a messenger of God,
My believe is Jesus is not God but a messenger of God.
Mr Godfear,
Sons of God.
Matthew 5:9 "..Blessed are the peacemakers. for they shall be called children of God "
John 17:23 " I in them and thou in me, that they maybe made perfect in one …."(God together
with Jesus's friends )-union of father and Jesus's 12 friends ?
Mr Godfear,
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
My belief is this:
Quran 112
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
Say He is Allah,The One
Allah, the Eternal ,Absolute
He begetteth not,
Nor is He begotten,
And there is none
Like unto Him.
God is God He is the Creator. His creations have children.To liken His Almighty with His Creations is blasphemy.
So you see. The God of the Bible and Israel is NOT the God of Islam. Just so you understand.
We do not pray to the same God.
Satan knows what Jesus is. So after the bible gospel "Good News" was spread, Satan came up with an ingenious plan. Make a religion that in ways mimics Christianity but then twists what really happened and what is to come.
You know Hitler believed in this system as well. By system I mean the system of Lies. He said that if you tell a small lie people will catch on and figure it out. But if you tell a big lie everyone will believe it. To quote: "The size of the lie is a definite factor in causing it to be believed,
for the vast masses of a nation are in the depths of their hearts more easily deceived than they are consciously and intentionally bad. The primitive simplicity of their minds renders them a more easy prey to a big lie than a small one"
Mr Godfear,
Samuel 7: 22 " wherefore thou art great, O Lord God: for there is none like thee, neither is there any God besides thee,according to all that we have heard with our ears"
.Jesus admitted that he is not God.Quran says Jesus is not God.Is it a lie?
Therefore if Quran lies then bible too lies.
Jesus said in the human nature; "why do you call me good? there is only one who is!!"
(Solo Deo Gloria). As resurected Adonai and Moshiach He is YHWH!
Mr Godfear,
You say "Ben, open your heart, take off the blinders. Read these verses word by word and tell me that they are not true. If you come to these verses with an open mind and heart, God will show you they are real. YOU have to WANT TO KNOW, if you come at God with a hardened heart and a closed mind, you'll never see it! "
Thank You.But these verses do not say that Jesus says " I am God pray to me "
Mr Christos,
Your assertions "Your god forbidst according to interpretations and traditions of men,
so it just another god or you are serving the animistic moongod. "
Please prove your assertions.
Proof is that people who narrow YHWH into one or two or three, do not
really understand the abilities of the Almighty.
As for allah, elohim or god; they can be many different things to many different people.
allah, elohim or god are all titles, Yahweh is the only real name.
Mr Godfear,
You said "What was Muhammad then? Are you sure Muhammad didn't "contaminate" "
Our belief is Muhammad (pbuh ) the messenger is a messenger and as elaborated in earlier posts, the Quran that is the message delivered to him through Jibreel (pbuh ) is from God.
It says inter alia that Jesus (pbuh ) is not god but a messenger just like Abraham, Moses, Muhammad (pbu them )
That is divine truth.We respect Jesus as a prophet but will never consider him god.Regarding him as such is blasphemy of the highest order.We respect Muhammad as a prophet but will never regard him as god.Lailaha illallah Muhamad arusulullah.There is no god but Allah and Muhamad is a messenger of Allah.
But then you have the Issue of the Bible with Jesus claiming he is God and that only though him can one enter the Kingdom of God.
There is no other way to heaven.
Mr Christos,
Jesus is not God.
The bible contradicts itself–which is which?
John 10:38 and 14:11
"Father is in me and I am in Father
'
contradicts with
John 14:28
" ,,my father is greater than I "
Jesus is imperfect and he is not god.
In no way does this say that Jesus was not perfect. Point it out if you can. Show where it says that Jesus was "imperfect" in other words where does it say Jesus SINNED!
It doesn't say that.
The bible is not contradicting again as I showed you in other comments. You are taking text completely out of context of each other.
Listen if you take any verse out of context then you can make the bible say anything you want.
Let me try to put this into the most simplest of forms for you.
Jesus Christ was both MAN and GOD at the same time.
In John 14:28 what is the CONTEXT let's see it…
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Where is JESUS going? He's going to the throne room of Heaven. What part of him is? HIS HUMANITY is. (The God of him is at both places at the same time) Is God the Father Greater than Jesus the son's Humanity! Of course it is. Jesus was FULL HUMANITY and FULLY GOD at the same time.
Jesus is saying here that HE is going to Heaven, and Jesus had told us what to do, with things such as prayer, gifts, etc.
Now look at the context, What was God going to do?
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
You added that Jesus was imperfect. The Bible does not say that.
What you need is an alive Spirit. The only way that you can make your dead spirit alive is to accept Jesus as Messiah. That at point your spirit will be made alive and the Holy Spirit will come into you.
1 Corinthians 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Mr Godfear.
IMPERFECTION
Imperfection does not refer to whether Jesus has sinned.
It is when the "Father is greater than him"
Perfection is when Jesus as a God has no equal or "nothing is powerful like him "Even if he is equal in status to the Father he is still not perfect because he has a partner,/rival just like the Greek mythological gods. And the Greek and Hindu gods fought each other for supremacy.
For God to be less perfect in a human mode than in his godly self shows the existence of two deities.This is a concept contrary to unicity of God.It is an invention.
Quran 6:22
"On the day shall We gather them altogether
We shall say to those who ascribed partners (to us )
" where are the partners whom ye invented and talked about ?
CONTINUATION
John 10:38 and 14:11
"Father is in me and I am in Father -means father and Jesus is one yet John 14:28
" ,,my father is greater than I " denotes separate deities for separate occassions.This is the contradiction for the bible does not explain your concept of incarnation in the context of reaching to humans,does it ?Even if it does, the changing into a human yet retaining godly existence shows there are two gods.Contrary to Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord."
For God to change to a human mode to reach out to humans, albeit at the same time
retaining his godly mode, points to god's weakness and degradation to the existence of His Creations.That is unacceptable to Muslims. God is Al Aziz,(powerful ) He Creates.
True to God's attributes of Mercy and Compassionate, He delivered Quran to mankind.Quran is the perfect guidance to humans.( Reaching out to humans )
You don't see the difference of the divine nature and the human nature in the person of Yeshua. again you are not counting with the pre-creational Being of Yehoshuwa.
Mr Christos,
We see the difference and understand the concept.But we do not accept and do not believe .God is divine.Human is human.
John 10:38, 14:11 Divine nature.
John 14:28 human nature.
Because you can read the Bible does not mean you can comprehend it. the Bible has got to read you.
Mr Christos,
With due respect, that is abstract and figment of human imagination.
Mr. Othman,
With all respect: it is your limitation.
You have not been enlightened.
Mr Christos,
"the Bible has got to read you. "
Two ends of the spectrum will not believe you;
The highly intellectual atheist–say the like of -Stephen Hawkings
and at the other end an ignorant layman -could not be bothered with philisophical religion , unless there is financial returns.
This too spiritual for you and yes you are right on the two ends of the spectrum will not believe the atheist won't because it is all imagination
and the believers on the other side because it is not according tradition.
Mr Christos,
I have no problems with abstracts and spiritual matters.Muslim 'sufis' are
spiritualists but they are guided spiritualists.Guided by the Quran and hadiths.
Guided by booksand mystic only!
MrChristos,
John 10:38, 14:11 Divine nature.
John 14:28 human nature.
In my post to Mr Godfear, I impressed that is blasphemy, existence of two dieties
that contradict a verse in OT saying God is One.
God is one but is able to manifest in many different ways.
to call any other description than oneness blasphemy is
very short-sighted.
Mr Godfear,
According to the bible, Jesus is a savior only to Israelites.What relevance is it to others?To you, Mr Pastor Odwar Obiero ?
Matthew: 15:24
',,, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel ".
I tell you all about this at this comment below..
http://www.gjcn.org/2010/04/the-bible-verses-the-…
Mat 15;24 is universal as well as prophetic text:
Diaspora (10 tribes) was already outside israel.
There is only one Kahal YHWH; so the house of Israel is about
the salvation who are supposed to be saved; for the real YHWH
praisers are (spiritual) Yehudim.
Though in general He was more occupied with the Jews, apart
from some samaritans, but he did sent his apostles to the gentiles.
Mr Christos,
Your assertions "The isa masu mentioned in the quran was one of the many imposters."
It is Isa al masih–Isa the anointed one.
By not resorting to reasoning based on 'spiritual inspiration" but relying on historical facts can you prove your assertions?
The Bible has more traceable than other religiopus books, it has
historical, archeological, scientific, spiritual back-up.
if the isa and mary in the quran differ from yeshua and Maryam than
they are not the same, there were many yeshua's with a mother called
Maryam (as common as john and mary in england) plus that many tried
/pretend to be the Christ which is proven,
Also in the last century many claimed to be Jesus Christ, as He predicted "many will come in my name".
,Mr Christos,
Mr Godfear,
Mr Abiero,
Greetings,
We are now in the 15 th day of Ramadhan the fasting mont.h There are 15 days to go,God Willing.
To answer the allegation that the Jesus in the Quran is an "imposter' I post Quran verses 3:42-49
whereby Mary (pbuher ) was defended against accusations on her morality.Also, verse 3:44
informs that Muhammad (pbuh ) was not around when the incident happened.God revealed to him the circumstances surrounding the birth of Jesus.This answers your questions as to how one born 600 years later could know about Jesus (pbuh ) Quran was not written by Muhammad, an illiterate, Jews would not defend Jesus and Mary and Meccan pagans were just busy with their idols to bother about semitic religions.
CONTINUATION
The Verses:
42-And [mention] when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allah has chosen you and purified you and chosen you above the women of the worlds.
43-O Mary, be devoutly obedient to your Lord and prostrate and bow with those who bow [in prayer]."
44-That is from the news of the unseen which We reveal to you, [O Muhammad]. And you were not with them when they cast their pens as to which of them should be responsible for Mary. Nor were you with them when they disputed.45–And mention] when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary – distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near [to Allah ].
CONTINUATION
46–He will speak to the people in the cradle and in maturity and will be of the righteous
47–She said, "My Lord, how will I have a child when no man has touched me?" [The angel] said, "Such is Allah ; He creates what He wills. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, 'Be,' and it is.
48–And He will teach him writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel
49–And [make him] a messenger to the Children of Israel, [who will say], 'Indeed I have come to you with a sign from your Lord in that I design for you from clay [that which is] like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah . And I cure the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead – by permission of Allah . And I inform you of what you eat and what you store in your houses. Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers.
Surah 3:49 is not correct:pure in-writing:
The human form Yeshua was not formed that way,
this is fantasy.
so it is incorrect or isa was not Yeshua.
Mr Christos,
Surah 3:49 is not correct:pure in-writing:
The human form Yeshua was not formed that way,
The Quran talks about Jesus who is Isa (Pbuh ) and if this is not your Yeshua, so be it.
See Luke 1 (NT)
What gabriel stated in the quran is not necessarily the truth.
What is your bible's equavalent?
If there is no verse defending Mary whereas there are in Quran, who copies who?
Maybe you never really read the bible
and if you did you can't understand it.
No pneuma anakoinosis… too bad!
Ramadan is about 28 times 23 hours fasting,delayed eating/drinking
with wrong meditation and without discernment concentrating on
wrong scriptures.
quran contains true and untrue statements, some are copied from
the bible to make gabriel's test-programme make real.
Also if gabriel transmitted the texts to muhammed, how on earth
can you call muhammed a prophet?
angels convey messages, remember?
Mr Christos,
Somehow I missed your posts.
You have been making generalised statements without giving proofs.Tell me which verses
are copied? Regarding Surah 3:49, do you have the equal verse defending Mary? Or you disregard Mary because, that is a catholic issue !
On your question as to why Muhammad is a prophet whereas messages were transmitted by Jibreel, please note that a Prophet is also a messenger while a messenger
may not be a prophet.Prophet is Rasul; he delivers messages contained in Books or some documents .david (pbuh )-Zabur (psalms ) Jesus(pbuh ) -Injil (Gospels ) These messages thru Books/documents are delivered to humans and jinns by the prophets.
Messengers (Nabi ) are those sent by God as warners to their people.There are hundreds of thousands of them ,each to their respective tribes and people.They did not have books.
Jibreel is a messenger of God and he delivered God's messages ONLY to prophets (Rasul) and messengers (nabi ) He had no authority to deal with ordinary humans.He is after all the Holy Spirit (Ruh Qudus .
Mary is too accentuated in catholicism.
Mary pointed to Christ .
the mother of heaven cult stems from babel.
You really can't dig it, a prophet by new testament standards is not a
messenger like an angel, you don't see the fifference in mechanical,
automatic, inspired or revealed prophecy.
Your contamination of gabriel being the holy spirit is more blasphemy
that all god descriptions combined.
How can some one distinguished and sent by God be God.How can a servant of God be God.Even if God has no limtations to what HE wants to be , it is not HIS attributes (Exaltness, Most High ) to sully Himself to the level of His Creations.
You praise Him but at the same time degrade Him to level of His Creations.
YHWH can and did it in the form of YHM.
you apply human reasoning to inmeasurable things of the Divine.
you degrade YHWH by denying his omnipotence
because allah is only the mighty one and not the Almighty One!
Mr Christos,
"28 times 23 hours fasting,delayed eating/drinking
with wrong meditation and without discernment concentrating on
wrong scriptures. "
Not correct—it is dusk to dawn for 30 consecutive days observed by majority of 1.6 Billion people ( minors and sick are exempted ) enmasse in Ramadan.Abstinence from a single drop of external matter, into the body, abstinence from foul languages ,sex i.e following the traditions of prophets: Abraham, Moses David,Solomon,Isiah,John the Baptist,Jesus and Muhammad (Peace be upon all Prophets )
Copied from the Bible? which one ? How is it copied by an illiterate? copied by his scribes? from where ?-there was no Arabic Bible at that time. The issue is if it is copied there must be a master copy-the ORIGINAL bible but where is the original bible copy?
Sorry for the error; 28 days instead of 30 days (confused jewish month with quranical
month).
ramadan is an unhealthy impractibable and imperfect way of fasting, it is even less
of value than a real 24 hrs charismatic fasting.
Gabriel stated things from the bible to make things look more real, just to make the
test harder.
the real Bible is in heaven not on earth.
Mr Christos,
Does the Jewish calendar says human existence began some 57 yeras agao, hence the calendar's counting of days , months and years? Is this compatible to what science discovered and proved?
If you don't want to read the comments straightfaced or do not want to
understand them or can not understand them too bad.
It is not about science; it was about cultural applications.
I suggest you leave the liquor alone when you are writing
did our existence start with the birth of Christ?
Jibreel is the messenger to prophets and human messengers
Muhammad is a prophet and messenger to all mankind.
Copied from Bible?
Copied from which original bible?
What are the verses considered copied?
contradicts the fact that Gabriel was a messenger to humans.
to be a messenger is not exclusive, there are still messengers today,
muhammed was not the last one.
That human is a Prophet and messenger.He as with other Prophets: before him :Abraham,Moses,Jesus were all Prophets , humans without sin.
Your Hebrew bible mentioned his name.Are there any other names prophesized as coming as prophets. That is if you believe the Old Testament.
Is there a John Smith ? If that is what you believed.
You are wrong; Abraham and Moses were prophets but not without sin. YHM was the only one without sin.
Isaiah was a sinner and muhammed was a sinner.
no one is perfect only YHWH in human form YHM.
John Smith is not relevant in the discussion.
Ramadan is dawn to dusk fasting consecutively for 30 days enmasse by 1.6 Billion people( less the sick,minors )
to what avail?
fasting without doing justice won't improve the spiritual situation.
Mr Christos,
That will be a chapter on the religious ritual of fasting.I will extend to you upon request.
It is a religous tradition carried out by Abraham, Moses and Jesus(Alayhi wasalam to all ) and continued by Muhammad (Sallahu alayhiwasalam ) Salient purpose to mark one's obedience in carrying out the pillars of Islam (deeds ) AFTER sincere declaraiton of faith (Iman ) that there is no god BUT Allah and Muhammad is a messenger of Allah.This article of faith uttered loudly is a declaration to obeisance on absolute Unicity of God ( without partners nor associates ) and that Muhammad is only a prophet and messenger.The latter
effectively and specifically refute the notion that Islam is a religion concocted by Muhammad and he copies the bible.
Besides that fasting reminds and made Muslims emphatize with the plight of the poor and hungry.Fasting month-Ramadan is a month of total devotion to God and exhortation for Muslims to be most charitable to fellow Muslims.The giving of alms( Fitrah ) and zakat( Muslim tax ) and distribution thereof to the needy, poor orphans and travellers in God's mission(fi sabilillah ) is the climax.Hence, the day when fasting ends is called eidil Fitri
You are not telling any new things (what i have learned concerning
islam in the last 20 years).
Your fasting is in vain because you are not obeying YHWH's word and
that is why it does not produce results, it is only satisfying the orders
and the flesh and provoking the devil, that is why so many disasters
befall the various religionists of the world.(pakistan flood).
Fasting demands the right prayer in Spirit and in Truth according
to the Word of YHWH.
If not, don't bother; nothing from nothing leaves nothing.
Mr Godfear.
You say "That Qur'an does everything it can to hide and conceal who and what Jesus IS!
Care to tell what it conceals and the reasons thereof. No inspirational or spiritual causes please.
Just plain facts.
I put a whole thing together to show this.
The Qur'an conceals that Jesus was God. That Jesus is the Messiah. Very clearly.
Mr Christos,
The Quran explained clearly that Jesus pbuh is not god but a prophet.
By definition, concealing is hiding something that is obvious .It is clear that the Quran and the bible itself refute that Jesus was god. So we have a concensus here.Where is the concealment ?
However, Quran does not refute Jesus is the masihi (messiah ) the anointed one, meaning the leader.
Oh Ben, how you say such things even know them but do not believe.
"However, Quran does not refute Jesus is the masihi (messiah ) the anointed one, meaning the leader."
Now your just disclaiming God. Jesus is the Messiah, The Anointed One, The REDEEMER!
That word LEADER doesn't mean just a teacher, It means MASTER, OWNER.
Only a dead spirit could say Jesus is the Messiah and then say he is only a teacher or just a prophet.
The Very words "The Anointed One"… Anointed by whom? The One of what? Jesus was the perfect lamb of God! Sent to pay for our sins! Your right he was a teacher, JESUS Taught that only by faith in Him can one enter the Kingdom of God.
Only by accepting his Blood as the living sacrifice for your sins can one enter the Kingdom of God.
Why do you discredit Jesus. Jesus' very words prove what he was here to do. For your Qur'an to be correct one must discredit the WHOLE BIBLE! Because every meaning of the Bible OT and NT is ALL ABOUT JESUS being the lamb for your sins!!!!
Mr Godfear,
Two important notes
1.For your Qur'an to be correct one must discredit the WHOLE BIBLE! –
NOT CORRECT for there are verses that have not been contaminated.
2.''ALL ABOUT JESUS being the lamb for your sins!!!!
NOT CORRECT for Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of Israel, {"for the sins of some of rebellious Jews."} not to atone but to guide them in God's ways.
Mr Godfear,
Point blankly– we do not pray to God's creations.Jesus (pbuh ) was a man, Muhammad (pbuh ) was a man, Gautama Buddha was a man .No matter how things are explained but once created things are likened to God-we reject them.That is Tawhid-knowing Who God is.
The problem is that many people don't understand the difference between the pre-creation Yehoshuwa and the manifestation in flesh and blood that was on earth for around 33 years nor the Nephesh forms in YHWH.
Commentaries show that natural people do not understand the
spiritual world.
The real Yeshua was not just a prophet, John the baptist was
more than a prophet and he was only the one preparing the way.
Truth is The pre-creation Yehoshuwa was the Yeshua during
33 yrs; so YHWH in human form from birth till death.
He said "before Abrahim was I am"
Quran conceals the way of salvation shown in the new Testament,
Thus it conceals the real Yeshuwa(h).
We can't go back to old testament times with the quran, going
from law to grace back to law. quran would correct if it continues
N.T. ways, but it doesn't, it is just an angelical monologue with
true and untrue statements to test the natural man/women.
Mr Christos,
Most human beings are natural simple minded human beings.They do not understand elaborate concepts.The Quran explains concept on Godship clear and simple–God is not a man in whatever form or for whatever reason,Man answers call of nature, eats , sleeps.God Create those wants and needs in man.He the the Most high would not degrade Himself and it is a blasphemy if we humans degrade Him.
In the Quran ,God informs man the way to salvation ,the way to heaven.God also tells that the Nasara (Christians ) idea of salvation through Jesus is "bathil "wrong and an invention.There is no concealment and we muslims know and understand your various concepts and ideas but we do not accept them for a simple reason that man cannot be god period.Thus, your 'spiritual ; dimension are also considered an invention.
Mr. Othman,
It is your description of blasphemy that hinders any understanding of YHWH, actually the quran tries to simplify faith again to the mosaic model. while the new
testament fulfilled that already through Yeshua, but you
don't accept that, that's your choice, but it leaves you with
a powerless religion (just like judaism and christianity in
general) that will be run over by the anti-christ.
It is easy to say that Yeshua can't be YHWH, you don't
know because you have not experienced anything at all
so you can't talk about the spiritual because you can't
understand it without YHWH Ruach you are lost.
Mr Christos,
In earlier posts we have covered that area.Anyway, that is our beliefs–holding on to
monotheism in theory, practice, form and substance.Not wavering an inch!
Mr Christos
You say "quran would correct if it continues
N.T. ways, but it doesn't, it is just an angelical monologue "
By the NT ways you mean the ways of inventions and innovations from the original texts?
Torah was subjected to such process,Gospel went through such process too.The absence of memorisers of the original texts made it difficult to crosscheck whether the writings are genuine.
People can change written text but cannot change what have been memorised.
The authencity of Quran is preserved through this check and balance methodology.
Mr. Othman
you are quick to say what has been covered in earlier posts but there are many other things that were not.
monotheism, dualism, sole family and trinitarian
theories are short-sighted as well as short-circuiting YHWH and distancing.
it is o.k.; it is your choice.
Mr Christos,
You say "other things that were not.
monotheism, dualism, sole family and trinitarian '
As far as possible I will not want to go into those philisophical aspects of religion.what
more to debate with others.
Philosophical discourses are the favourite past time of atheists and polytheists (Greeks, Hindus ,Biddhists )
I have my Quran and Hadiths.My favourite past time is to memorise the verses of the Quran,
word by word.I have little time for other things..
Regards.
You are diverting and escaping
bad reading too;
"other things that were not"(not covered topics)
stand apart from god descriptions.
Mr.Othman,
What you call inventions and innovations are from before there was time.
Don't get hung up on religious books, they are not holy
nor perfect nor complete.
The contaminations of quran, vedas, buddha writings are
all on purpose, even the Bible has contaminations but far less than above-mentioned books.
If you can't discern correctly scriptures you will always
draw the wrong conclusions.
Mr Godfear,
You said "We do not pray to the same God. '
Allah (God ) Almighty is he Creator of the heavens and earths,the angels the jinns , humans and animals.If one refuses to submit to His Will and refuse to pray to Him, it does not matter to Him at all,for All beings will have to meet Him on the Day of Judgement.
Exodus 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
The True God of the Universe and Heaven is the God of ISRAEL!
Is your Allah the God of Israel? Who's son was Jesus the Messiah who Paid for your sins? Whom you must accept to enter God's Kingdom? If not, then the God you pray to and the God I pray to are not the same God.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms
Satan is in the business of false religions. The religions are so clever and so powerful over man that they will blind a man from the truth. The whole point of a religion is to blind man. To make him think he must some how earn heaven and NOT depend on God for everything. God provides everything for us. Man is not able to make his own righteousness, God must give you righteousness (His) to enter His Kingdom. God sent his pardon, if you can't accept his pardon for your sins then you won't have God's righteousness.
The only way man can pay for his sins is to die. Because even ONE sin is worthy of the death punishment (we are talking eternal not the physical body) this death punishment will come at the Judgment. Where anyone who has not turned towards God and accepted his pardon for sin will be cast into the lake of fire. Not because he wants to do that, but because his justice will demand it.
God does not want any soul to go to hell. Hell was not made for man. Hell was made for Satan and the fallen Angels. God does everything he can without messing with your free will to save every soul.
The truth is, most people who hate the God of Israel now, will hate him even when they see him at judgment and like the fallen angels will take the same decision with pride. Pride comes before the Fall.
Mr Godfear,
Your criteria on who God is :
"Is your Allah the God of Israel?
Allah (God ) Is the God of all creations; Muslim Jews., unbelieving Israelis, disbelieving pagans.Pauline adherents.
Who's son was Jesus the Messiah who Paid for your sins?
the Messiah was the son of Mary.His mission was to guide the "lost sheep of Israel " to repent and return to submission to God
Whom you must accept to enter God's Kingdom?
Comply and abide to all His commands and refrain from transgressing His injunctions.
If not, then the God you pray to and the God I pray to are not the same God.
It does not matter, but ultimately you and I will meet the Creator.He will tell us to whom we have been praying to.
Mr Godfear,
"Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing "
That changing into human in the form of Jesus—is not that making a likeness?
Mr Godfear, You say "The only way man can pay for his sins is to die.' That could part of Mosaic law–in accordance with conditions of 40 years wandering in the desert.
In Islam a sinner can repent but up to God to accept his repentance.For sins committed against fellow humans such as adultery, killing others, trepentance is for the perpetrators to be tried according to sharia's law.Punishment meted varies according severities of crime commited.
Mr Godfear,
You quote "It's very simple. God made it VERY simple. Believe that Jesus was from God, who was sent to PAY for your SINS so that YOU do not have too! John 3:16 and John 3:36 show this very CLEARLY"
Matthew 15:24
"But he answered and said I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel'
Jesus is only the saviour for the Israelites.What good does it do for non Israelites ( Non Jews )?
What you are asking is was Jesus only for the Jews.
The Answer is Yes, and then No. Without understanding God's plan and the ages of earth this will confuse anyone.
In the AGE OF ISRAEL, Yes Jesus was sent as the Messiah of Israel. Predicted in the OT. When Jesus was on earth it was the Age of Israel Still.
The One Major thing your not seeing here is that God had to fully show that Israel would fully reject the Messiah. Had God just told them about the mystery of the Age of the Church then the Jews would of just said it's Gods plan and we'll do this, etc, etc. BUT God was showing here as he predicted in the OT that Israel would REJECT the Messiah.
Yes the Jews are God's people. But God knows what he's doing. Israel could have accepted Jesus and then taught it to the rest of the world. It was the JOB OF ISRAEL to do this from God.
What you are missing is that God put Israel on the side and issued in the time of the gentiles (Church Age) This started at Pentecost and continues until the rapture. Which the last 7 years are owed to Israel God will use Israel in the Tribulation to witness.
I'm putting this in very simple terms but there is great detail on this, you have to study the ages and why the ages are there and what God was doing with the Ages.
It's just like with the Law of Moses. God didn't want to issue in the Age of the Law, he wanted to keep the Age of Promise going. But because of Israel's arrogance and pride God was forced to issue in the Age of the Law. When the Age of Law was presented to Israel, Israel could of turned to God and repented. BUT because with Pride they said "This we shall do" the Age of the Law was issued. To show man what sin is. Jesus Christ fulfilled the law fully. If you break one of the laws, you break them all. It's better to look at the Law as a Wall. If you jump over or break though the Wall you go past the whole Wall. This is what the Law was meant to do, to show man what sin is. Turning against God.
This is why Jesus taught that the Law says it's a sin to murder, BUT Jesus said that if you hate your brother you have murdered him because thinking it in your mind is the same as doing it! It's all about mental attitude! towards God. Jesus fulfilled the Law. The Church Age is not under the Law, it is under Grace. Thus why it's called the "Age of Grace".
Paul saw that the Holy Spirit was coming on to the Gentiles. It's clear that from the time of Pentecost that the Church Age began and the Age of Israel was put on HOLD!
See:
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
WE DO NOT LIVE UNDER THE LAW, that was for the Age of Israel! Which when the Age of Grace comes to a close at the Rapture and the 7 year tribulation starts, This is the return to the Age of Israel. The continuation of the Age of Israel. Israel will Rebuild the Temple.
This is not a time on earth YOU WANT TO BE A PART OF! The Wrath of God is going to pour out on the World. Billions of people are going to DIE. You can save yourself from this time by accepting Jesus Christ as messiah now.
Mr Godfear,
You say "What you are missing is that God put Israel on the side and issued in the time of the gentiles (Church Age) This started at Pentecost and continues until the rapture. "
What does the Old Testament says about this? This age of Israel being put on hold or Mosaic Laws put on hold?
Mr Godfear,
Muslims accept Jesus Christ as messiah (Isa Alayhisalam as Al Masihi ) but he is a prophet not a god.Yes, when Judgement DAY comes ALL living at that time will die.The universe will perish.All will face God and answer for our beliefs and deeds.
Mr Godfear,
Son of God or Son of man ?
Matthew 26:2
"… and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucufied "
Matthew 16:27
" For the Son of man shall come in the Glory of his father with his angels:
and then he shall reward everyman according to his works "
It's funny Ben, I know where your getting your questions. They are all questions I've heard before.
I have explained this matter to you in other comments.
Jesus came for Israel. Israel rejected the Messiah. Which God issued in the Age of the Church (Age of Grace). See the other comment about this very matter.
Mr Godfear,
Is it the thing on god's incarnation to human form? Any sepecific corroboration in the bible that this is what happened.? Specifically saying God changed to Jesus? More expilcit than that verse " Father and I as one "
To me,"…father and I as one …" denotes Jesus compliance with God's commands …"as a prophet.
"The Father and I are One.(from the beginning)".
The compliance of the divine person in human flesh and blood.
Yeshua was far more than a prophet unlike isa, so it is not the same one.
To Muslims that is blasphemy.
To you , your choice.
Regards.
Mr Christos,
"Don't get hung up on religious books, they are not holy "
Your "Ruach indwelling , spiritual and inspirational " concepts ,are they documented into a
book? If not how do you inform others on your ideas? If they are orally spread through memories in forms of songs etc and not accompanied with written version , they will meet the fate of the Old Testaments–manipulated by people.
If those ideas are written but not memorised and there is no oral version , they will meet the fate of the New Testaments –contaminated by human hands.
maybe you are comfortable with whatever methodology you have now but believe me in 100 years time, the version you have now will be a changed one.That is a fact.The point is
you cannot run away from reality that man needs a book , for a book relating to beliefs it has to be learned by heart verbatim.Those are the security features required, Resorting to other devices is akin to fantasing and building castles in the air !
The Holy Spirit's indwelling and gifts are all documented in the Bible:Acts and Corinthians.
Old Testament and New Testament are far more correct than quran or any other religious book.
The only books humans really need are the Bible dictionaries
and encyclopedias.
Funny, you got to search,study, learn and memorize (like the
pharisees did) without coming to knownledge.
The Holy Spirit through us bears witness in word and spirit.
A hundred years from now we will be in the Millennium of Christ
where all things shall be clear and evident.
"The Holy Spirit's indwelling and gifts are all documented in the Bible:Acts and Corinthians. "
Care to give an example, Mr Christos?
"A hundred years from now we will be in the Millennium of Christ
where all things shall be clear and evident"
Mr Christos,
where in the bible does it say about that–few hundred years from now?
Acts 2; tongues,
I Cor 12 tongues
Jesus said that the generation that will see the end-times signs (of world-system)
will witness his return. Matthew 24.
Longest scenario; one generation 100 years; 1948-2048 plus 7 yrs anti-christ=2055;
beginning of Millennium. 2010 plus one hundred years is 2110, so in theory one
can be 55 yrs in the 1000 yr reign.
Mr Christos,
Some people are fond of extrapolation / interpolation and making guesses from them. Matthew 24 does not say anything on that prophecy
.What strikes me is the 'phrase "the coming of the son of man'' I believe that.
Jesus the masihi (anointed one ) will come, recognized by Imam Mahdi and will destroy dajjal the anti christ.
You read the Bible, but you can not understand it;
Mat 24 is about the endtimes and the return of YHM.
the signs are spoken of and in parables; the fig tree (israel
1948) the generation that sees all the signs shall witness
the end (world-system).
Blasphemy is just an excuse for muslims to destroy, kill and do
whatever is good for islam.
That is not according the will of YHWH.
For the sole family theory anything else is blasphemy.
For trinitarians anything but the trinity is blasphemy.
It is over done to call theories blasphemies.
"Funny, you got to search,study, learn and memorize (like the
pharisees did) without coming to knownledge. '
Mr Christos,
Rest assured I know to whom I am praying to.Meaning we Muslims have full knowledge
why we God created us.Our knowledge made us reject your idea of man -god .
Blasphemy is just an excuse for muslims to destroy, kill and do
whatever is good for islam. '
Can you give examples Mr Christos?
If you mean what happened in Pakistan,Afghanistan and Somalia, as stated earlier their ijtihad made them decided to to do those things.It all boils down to the fact that in those places which are Muslim heartlands, Christian missionaries tried to evangelise and spread their beliefs to Muslims who already have beliefs.
There are millions of muslim acting on supposed blasphemy to kill & destroy
other muslims and other religionists, there are at least 30 conflicts around the
world involving extreme muslims participating in that.
nearly 16000 muslim terrorist attacks since 9/11/2001.
religion of peace?
Mr. Othman,
There is no doubt in my mind that all muslims think they know and to whom
they are praying to, still your knowledge made you draw the wrong conclusions.
Your religion does not provide you with assurance nor are your prayers answered. because you do not have the Holy Spirit you don't have access to
the throne, you don't receive words, visions, dreams, prophecies, tongues and
interpretation of tongues nor revelation. you don't have the gifts of the Spirit
You haven't receive glossolalia nor diakrisis, you don't get cured nor get the
ability to cure through the YHWH Ruach, words of knowledge, wisdom and
insight, this all is not fantasy but the truth in YHWH in YHM through the Ruach
under the Kabod surrounded by the Malak YHWH experienced in truth. reality
as well in the daily existence. it is still imperfect for we are imperfect people,
but is a foreshadow of things to come and the devil is eager to deceive and to
cheat you out of any possible blessing. he loves all religion as long as it keeps you away from the Qahal Yahweh. when the anti-christ comes you will be forced
to swear of your religion and accept his cult or die.
Thanatologically you better die with Christ than without Him.
Without Him your undivided spirit and soul will be in sheol/hades.
With Him your Spirit will be with YHWH and your soul in paradise.
Still your body will be resurrected for justification or for judgment,
unless YHM comes before death, to gather His people in the Harvest
(theomesis= refered to as rapture) when spirit, body and soul will be
changed in the air joined with the Kurios.
Dead religions won't get you there, you need the living faith in the LIVING
YHWH and a personal relation with Him in YHM through the Ruach YHWH,
a distant impersonal diety (elohim,god,allah) won't suffice nor all human
organised religions. YHWH loves you, but won't force you.
In the Milennium there won't be any choiceleft, it will be serve or suffer!
Is this Christianity or a sect of christianity?
Are all these superlatives quoted from the bible?
christianity has many denominations
Qahal Yhwh goes beyond that.
Any quotes from the bible?
There are many Psalms that prophetically mention the Great Qahal,
Revelation 20, 21 and 22.
Qahal or kahal is assembly or congregation?
If it is incorrect, why not you rectify the details in wikepedia?
assembly/congregation is gathering.
CONTINUATION
USA with 300 million and Europe with equal number of people need these evangelists;
for many are atheists ,gays, liberalists.No doubt these intelligent and educated masses
are no easy picking for your ruach indwelling bible read people things, they need a lot of convincing.Instead of meeting those real challenges, missionaries swamped to Pakistan ,Afghanistan and Indonesia expecting easier access ; trying to convert those who are stauncly entrenched in their religion..
These lack of respect and gung ho approach sometimes resulted in violent reactions.If you follow what I have said, you may understand why some resorted to killing.They are not missionaries 's easy targets, it seemed.Their tolerance level on blasphemies are vey low
People in europe and america have the free choice and possibilities to follow any religion they wan, in a muslim country you can not change religion.
there are no easy picks because everybody is suppose to be free to make a choice and one can only witness but the Holy Spirit has to convince them.
Mr Christos,
One of the reasons for the strict adherence to Islam is that it is an "ummatic' religion. It emphasizes on the interest of society/nation (ummah ) over individual/personal interest.
Freedom to come in and go and again go back to the religion distrupts the fabric of society, and the functioning of society that is based on the concept of brotherhood and cooperations Muslims care for each other and each muslim is dependent on others in his society for almost everything .
.
It is the reason why islam is failing as a religious, political, societal and
structural system, as all human systems so what's new?
Only YHWH can realise the perfect system on earth in the Millennium through Christ.
CONTINUATION
Society he lives in is a microcosm of the nation that ensures his supply of neccessities and welfare.The Prophet ( pbuh ) was reported to have said that no Muslim's faith in God is considered complete if he shirks his responsibility towards his fellow muslims be it providing material help-(clothings ,food,.)or spiritual guidance.( solving family and marital disputes etc etc )
As such the interest of society at large overrides personal whims and fancies.
Lest, this is labeled as curbing personal liberty so enshrined in the west, it has to be reminded that this so called 'injustice' is injustice in the eyes of western values.Free choice of individuals over society's interest (individualistic tendencies ) is the high altar of western
values and conrtribute to the malaise in your society ( uncared orphans, old people,homeless people etc )This disease of individualism and its negative attachments is now creeping into Muslim societies.
In Islam fairness and justice is putting things in its proper perspectives and in terms of priorities ensuring there is no malfunctioning of society just because of few inviduals
The liberty of choice was not a european thing it comes from the middle east;
Judaism and Christianity.
But religions are never perfect because you can not separate church/synagogue/mosque
and states completely nor can you join them completely (the human limitations).
Only YHM will show the perfect theocracy.
"Liberty of choice' is more profound in Islam.The freedom to be accountable to one's actions.
The freedom from shackle of inborn sin.However, as with everything created, there are limits and boundaries.There are priorities .All these are laid down by God.Not to accept these will result in chaos and injustice.
still the people in islam are not free to choose freely concerning religion.
They believed they are in a complete perfect religion praying to One God.Why should they choose others?
They believe(d) they are in the perfect religion praying to one god.
That does not mean that they are right.
they will be forced to choose between Lucifers replacement or YHM.
All religions will go to the stake of history.
Mr Godfear
Mr Christos
Mr Abiero
Nowadays very frequently terrorism is equated with muslims and Islam while forgetting that adherents of other religions and beliefs are also perpetrators .At times the word seems to find its convenient usage when all else failed to dislocate muslim from his beliefs in the hope that such a provocation will do the job what civil dialogues and debates could not.
The word terrorism is derived from the word terror-fear and to terrorise is to instil fear.Instilling fear is through many means and the most extreme is by torture and killings ,Nowadays, that is what is
associated with Islam and the spin doctors are having a field day spinning the mostly myth regarding Islam ensuing from the misdeeds of a few who hijacked Islam and bombed the towers in 9/11.
True that there are perpetrators in all religions, but the fact is that the muslim terrorist are
doing more than others which will encourage many other people of all walks of life to follow
the examples.
there are 500 mln to 1 bln fanatics/extremists who will force their ways on all if they have the chance.
I am disappointed with you Mr Christos.Again you are making sweeping statements.
The sweeping statements are not overdone, it is real!
times will get worse, you'lll see!
Extremists range from 50 to 100 million people,
fanatics 100 million to 1 billion because ignorance leads to fanaticism.
just read the newspaper; GOD is great, beer is good and people are crazy.
CONTINUATION
Reasonably speaking even if it is the case of a horrible massacre involving some three thousand innocent people, Muslims included, it cannot rank as the most horrendous act of terrorism in human history.No, we are not talking about the inquisition in Spain and Portugal or the genocide of Incas and Aztecs in central and south America or the slaughter of American natives by whites or the genocide against Armenians or even the holocaust .The nazis did not terrorise but simply attempted to annihilate a race.
"Todas naciones hablan mal de las otras naciones y todos tienen razon"/
All nations speak bad about the other nations and they are all correct.
All nations have their black pages in history.
Armenians were aso slaughtered by the turks.
the muslim conquest of many parts of Asia was cruel and bloody as well.
I did mention Armenians plight.
continuation
In terms of deliberate attempt to terrorise nothing can compare to what Christian or Christian led United States of America did in WW2 by bombing Nagasaki and Hiroshima with Atomic bombs.Yes , the weapon of mass destruction that indiscrimately destroyed
everything in its path; humans, buildings, the fauna and the flora of those cities.It was a deliberate attempt and a successful one that was ,to TERRORISE Japan into submission and surrender.There will be apologetics defending that decision to drop the bomb on a non European country .(Likewise other terrorists will justify what they did ) .No one can deny that it iwas terrorism at its most extreme and the worst in human history.Who were the terrorists? Were they muslims?
Therefore the next time, any of you gentlemen plays and flash that 'terrorism ' card , it will be appreciated if you look back to history and remember that comparatively what misguided muslims did or doing are very pale in comparison to what happened in Nagasaki and Hiroshima .
Facts; Japan attacked US 12-7-1941.
If US would not have used A-bombs, Germany would have; and you would be speaking japanese/
german or italian (Nihongo/Deutsch/Italiano) or be part of a decoration item now.
Also the second worldwar would have lasted several years longer millions of soldiers and civilians would have died more ( 65-90 million instead of 57 million people),
the japanese would have fought till the bitter end and japan would have been known as the us eastern asian territories/ american japanese archipelago, and you would be writing accusing
the US of genocide
As I said earlier each and everyone of perpetrators of terrorism WILL try to justify their actions.
Speculations abound on the 'what if and what may happen"–tailored to suit each terrorist agenda.Whatever, the reasons given, the fact is terrorism of the most horrendous scale has been committed by USA.The funny thing is without remorse or regeret.Is it because they are non christians?
You would talk differently now if The Soviet Union would have had the power
the US had during 1945-1960.
You think the soviets would have been less harsh than the americans?
By the way the most horrendous scale of terror was by the Romans.
You accept that Atomic bomb detonation over Nagasaki and Hiroshima is an act of terrorism.
One can consider the a-bomb attacks as stateterrorism
but actually it were acts of war.
whaty was preferable; 57 mln or about 125 mln dead?
Facts; Japan attacked US 12-7-1941.
A serious impartial student of history knows that every action begets a reaction."Pearl harbour"
was part of chain of events that began 10 years earlier in relations between Japan,China and the west and not to forget the part played by zionism movement.
Well you are certainly not a serious impartial student of history,
japan's imperialism started far earlier than 1937.
zionism is on the same level as pan-arabism.
Mr Othman,
"Orbit with its own motion" is comparable to Isa 40:22 "above the circle of the earth"
but you are trying to justify quranical in-reading that goes against the fact that YHWH
upholds everything out there although it appears to be different.
Religious books can't be compatible with science because that is perceptional registration of the earthly reality which differs from the absolute truth and the daily existence; all books contain errors.
When Moshe speaks about the one who will come he refers to YHM not to muhammed.
oneness, dualism and trinity are descriptional reductions of the being of YHWH.
Muhammad (pbuh ) in the bible.
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the Old Testament:
The Qur’an mentions in Surah Al-Araf chapter 7 verse 157:
“Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures) in the law and the Gospel”.
1. MUHAMMAD (PBUH) PROPHESISED IN THE BOOK OF DEUTERONOMY:
Almighty God speaks to Moses in Book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18:
“I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.”
The Christians say that this prophecy refers to Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) was like Moses (pbuh). Moses (pbuh) was a Jew, as well as Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew. Moses (pbuh) was a Prophet and Jesus (pbuh) was also a Prophet.
If these two are the only criteria for this prophecy to be fulfilled, then all the Prophets of the Bible who came after
Moses (pbuh) such as Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist, etc. (pbut) will
fulfill this prophecy since all were Jews as well as prophets.
However, it is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is like Moses (pbuh):
i) Both had a father and a mother, while Jesus (pbuh) was born miraculously without any male intervention.
[Mathew 1:18 and Luke 1:35 and also Al-Qur'an 3:42-47]
ii) Both were married and had children. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not marry nor had children.
iii) Both died natural deaths. Jesus (pbuh) has been raised up alive. (4:157-158)
Muhammad (pbuh) is from among the brethren of Moses (pbuh). Arabs are brethren of Jews. Abraham (pbuh) had two sons: Ishmail and Isaac (pbut). The Arabs are the descendants of Ishmail (pbuh) and the Jews are the descendants of Isaac (pbuh).
Words in the mouth:
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was unlettered and whatever revelations he received from Almighty God he repeated them verbatim.
“I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.”
YHWH's words were not put in the mouth of muhammed, he got words from Gabriel, The only one who really got words put in his mouth was YHM.
Jesus got message from God through Gabriel.
YHM was in direct contact with YHWH
angels only served Him
they did not have to direct YHM as they had to do with
muhammed and the others.
CONTINUATION
[Deuteronomy 18:18]
iv) Both besides being Prophets were also kings i.e. they could inflict capital punishment. Jesus (pbuh) said, “My kingdom is not of this world.” (John 18:36).
v) Both were accepted as Prophets by their people in their lifetime but Jesus (pbuh) was rejected by his
people. John chapter 1 verse 11 states, “He came unto his own, but his own received him not.”
iv) Both brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not bring any new laws. (Mathew 5:17-18).
2. It is Mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 18:19
“And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not harken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.”
YHM came to fulfill the law of that was given by YHWH through moses,
muhammed got instructions through gabriel.
Gabriel is the Holy Spirit the Ruh Qudus.
This is pure escapism because an angel can not be the H.S.
but if you want to believe that fairytale, that is your bet.
Mr Christos,.
That instruction from Gabriel was for 23 years culminating in the completion of a complete and perfect Book -the Quran.Culminating in the completion of memorisation by thousands of Huffaz.Book on paper and words verbatim learned by heart.
In one of the 23 years, Muhammad (pbuh ) ascended to heavens and met God and received directly from God instructions on obligatory prayers .He met the other Prophets, Abraham, Moses and Jesus(pbu them all ) .These events (Israk and Mi'raj ) were indeed the highest accolade for a human and a prophet, ever.
We Muslims are told not to 'priotise' one prophet over the others, but what the final prophet did and events he went through befits his status as the last prophet.
It does not matter how many years passed, you obey YHWH or angels!
That muhammed ascended to heaven is not certain.
If it was true it shows that he was deceived meeting the other prophets.
And if he really ascended to heaven so what there are too many people
in too many religions who ascended into heaven and came back.
Louis Farrakahn ascended and met elijah muhammed and YHM
so is he the last prophet now?
Mr Christos,
Were Louis and Elijah prophesisized in the OT?
Were they for All mankind not for enslaved blacks frustrated with th the treatment by Christian whites?
According to louis, elijah, mr, moon, koresh, mr. jones they were all referred
to in the bible.
CONTINUATION
3. Muhammad (pbuh) is prophesised in the book of Isaiah:
It is mentioned in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12:
“And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.”
When Archangel Gabrail commanded Muhammad (pbuh) by saying Iqra – “Read”, he replied, “I am not learned”.
4. prophet Muhammad (pbuh) mentioned by name in the old testament:
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16:
“Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem.”
“His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters
of Jerusalem.”
In the Hebrew language im is added for respect. Similarely im is added after the name of Prophet Muhammad
(pbuh) to make it Muhammadim. In English translation they have even translated the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as “altogether lovely”, but in the Old Testament in Hebrew, the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is yet present.
Isa 29:12 talks about a sealed book so eventhough you are able to read
you can't read a sealed book unless it is revealed or when you are enabled
to read it.
Song of Solomon 5:16does not talk about a prophet that's false interpretation.
Song of Solomon talks about Muhammad. (Muhammadim )
My very first comment on this article proves to be true:
muslims don't have the Holy Spirit and can not deduct
the Bible because of that.
Song of Solomon has no reference to the prophet just
because words and names are simular does not always
indicate a connection.
Barrack Obama can be traced in the Bible (hebrew) referrred
to the devil in N.T. it does not make it true.
Mr Christos,
Your choice to deny what is in your bible.Mohammadim–who else?.Does Yeshua sounds like Mohammadim?
I did not say it is not in there but it is like:
this my son the David/beloved.
can you grasp that?
CONTINUATION
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the New Testament:
Al-Qur’an Chapter 61 Verse 6:
“And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said, ‘O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me and giving glad tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmed.’ But when he came to them with clear signs, they said, ‘This is evident sorcery!’ ”
All the prophecies mentioned in the Old Testament regarding Muhammad (pbuh) besides applying to the Jews also hold good for the Christians.
1. John chapter 14 verse 16:
“And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever.”
2. Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26:
“But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which
proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me.”
3. Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:
“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you”.
“Ahmed” or “Muhammad” meaning “the one who praises” or “the praised one” is almost the translation of the
Greek word Periclytos. In the Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7. The word ‘Comforter’ is used in the English translation for the Greek word Paracletos which means advocate or a kind friend rather than a comforter.
Paracletos is the warped reading for Periclytos. Jesus (pbuh) actually prophesised Ahmed by name. Even the
Greek word Paraclete refers to the Prophet (pbuh) who is a mercy for all creatures.
Some Christians say that the Comforter mentioned in these prophecies refers to the Holy Sprit. They fail to realise
that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come. The Bible states that the
Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus (pbuh), in the womb of Elizabeth, and again when Jesus (pbuh) was being baptised, etc. Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet
Muhammad (pbuh).
4. Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14:
“I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is
come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me”.
The Sprit of Truth, spoken about in this prophecy referes to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
NOTE: All quotations of the Bible are taken from the King James Version.
January 4, 2010 at 7:30 am
No, comforter is nacham.
Holy Spirit was not permanent present before birth, life, dead and ressurection
of YHM.
also the appaerence in the baptism of YHM was not permanent
Holy Spirit's fulness was given on the day of pentecost 10 days after YHM's
ascension to Heaven. after that it was permanent with believers in Christ.
Any verses from bible? Do these contradict with those verses?
No, but you just can't properly deduct biblical texts.
so you can't really understand.
It is temporary appearences versus permanent ones.
Your exegesis?
John 7:39 the Sp[irit was not given yet
Acts 2:2 YHWH Ruach poured out.
the H.S. in form of a dove did not remain "permanently" with
mary or at the baptism of YHM.
Mr Christos,
The bible says god is enthroned on the circle ( is it above the circle ? ) meaning god's
position is located !
god is in our galaxy?
What would Stephen Hawkings say?
YHWH is everywhere, it is not talking about the specific position.
Everywhere where? But the bible says on earth's circle.Earth is in Solar galaxy.
to be enthroned on the circle does not limited YHWH's omnipresence.
Mr Christos,
Meaning of" to copy-"-to produce something so that it is the same as the original".In this context . maybe you will want to say Quran copies the bible in its meaning or message.
Meaning of "to reconstruct-"—to rebuild.You may want to say that the foundation was laid by the bible and the Quran rebuilds on the facts in the bible.
Key words are "original' and "foundation".
Now to Quran:
Quran Surah 36 ( Yaasin ) which by the Grace of God ,I managed to memorise verbatim in Arabic, contains inter alia messages on celestial system particularly verses 36 to 40.These relate to the sun and the moon.and their effect in bringing day and night.
36:37 "And a sign for them is the night.We remove from it ( the light of day ), so they are left in darkness."
36:38".And the sun rises on its fixed course for a term (appointed ).That is the Decree of the All Mighty, the All Knowing."
36:39" And the moon-we have determined for its phases,until it return (appearing ) like the old date stalk ".
36:40 "The sun must not catch up the moon, nor does the night outstrip the day.Each one is travelling" in an orbit with its own motion.
Thus, verse 40 sums up the fact that the Quran is talking about the sun and the moon.
The key words are "sun" and 'moon"
Now COMPARE them with the bible:
Isaiah chapter 40, verse 22 King James Version;
" ( It is ) HE that sitteth upon the CIRCLE of the EARTH, and the inhabitants there of (are ) as grasshoppers………"
Isaiah chapter 40, verse 22 New International Version
"HE sits enthroned above the CIRCLE of the EARTH and its people are like grasshoppers……"
The key words here are" He (God ) " and" Earth"
Compare and contrast , we find that the Quran is talking about the sun and moon moving in their orbits (circle ) whereas the bible is talking about God enthroned on earth's circle.Are the subjects and objects the same?Are the originals and foundations the same? Clearly they are not.So your ruach indwelling spiritual rationalising aside, plain English will conclude that there are no copying nor reconstructing.
When i use copy, reconstruct i mean it.
Gabriel could do so for the quran is his textbook.
I said the text is "comparable" but not the same.
Psalm 19:6 is even more simular.
But you by-passed the most important remark in order
to establish scientific proof, well scientists are the greatest doubters
and applications are various and many; no one will really convert to
any religion based on scienctific evidence.
Gabriel Alayhisalam is just God's messenger to prophets.
Quran 2:98
Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and prophets,to Gabriel and Michael,
Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject the Faith.
Note;
'A party of the Jews int he time of Muhammad ridiculed the Muslim belief that Gabriel brought down revelations to muhammad (pbuh ) .Michael was called in their books " the great prince which stand
for the children of thy people:But this PRETENCE that Michael was their friend and Gabriel their arch enemy– was merely a manifestation of their unbelief in angels, Prophets and God Himself…"
Mr Christos-Does it ring any bells to you?
I don't believe that the quran is satan's book.
nor do i think that Gabriel became an enemy of Michael.
I say that YHWH instructed Gabriel to transmit a testprogram
to muhammed, nothing more nothing less.
What testprogram ?
The test-programme is real obedience
muslims and mormons failed the tests.
Is it a test to humanise God? And where is the details of this test stated in the Bible?
Gal 1:8 even if an angel from Heaven preaches another gospel
he be anathema/cursed.
The Michaiah test in Kings.
the warning in Revelation 22 not to add to the eschalogical scripture of that book (#66).
YHWH is more human as a more God than you can or will
understand.
Mr Christos,to
You are indeed a Pauline Christian despite your ruach indwelling and "mistrust "
of earthly bible.
Gal 1: 5-9 were words from Paul… claiming he was "God-commissioned "
If it was another Gospel it could be his version, dont' you think so?
No, not all words by Paul were inspired.
no, the gospel according to the new testament
the quran is not a spiritual follow-up to that.
A testprogramme set up by Paul, who would himself fail many tests on credibility
and authencity.My opinion, that is.
the real test is discernment to see the differences,
but obviously you don't.
it is your opinion indeed.
Quran 2: 30
Behold, your Lord said to the angels: " I will need a vicegerent on earth ' They said "Will you place thererin one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?-whilst we do celebrate Your praises and glorify Your holy (name )?
HE said "I know what YOU(ANGELS ) KNOW NOT"
It is clear from that verse that angels are mere God 's messengers to Prophets and Prophets are in turn mere God's messengers to humans and jinns.That include Jesus (pbuh )
Mr Christos you said–"to establish scientific proof, well scientists are the greatest doubters "
In the context of that throne on earth's circle, are you doubting the established fact that earth and its rotation orbit is in a galaxy .The sun and the moon with their circles rotating in the same galaxy as earth.Does your without book spiritual indwelling made you doubt all these scientific facts.?
That is your conclusion
the thing is you concentrate on the wrong remarks,
as i told you YHWH controls it and we see it in different ways through
the ages space reality differs from the truth.
What is space to you?
(outer) space is the universe.
Then why does the Bible say the throne is on the circle of the earth?
In Quran ; there is something about HIS Throne,
Quran 32:4 "It is Allah, Who has Created the heavens and the earth
And all between them; in six periods.
The he established himself on the Throne ……."
Quran 32:5 "HE Directs the affairs from the heavens to the earth….."
Quran2:115 " To Allah belongs the East and the West;wither so are Ye turn.
there is Allah,
For Allah is All-embracing.All knowing
There is no specific location on God's throne, to say it is on the circle is not acceptable for HE Does not say so.That circle is His Creations.The Universe is His Creations.Nothing is like Him.Yet HE is Omnipresent.
It does not say that his throne is there.
wrong again.
Isaiah chapter 40, verse 22 King James Version;
" ( It is ) HE that sitteth upon the CIRCLE of the EARTH, and the inhabitants there of (are ) as grasshoppers………"
He sitteth upon the circle (temporarily as well as permanent;
Omnipresence does not exclude one or the other).
The Real Throne is not there though He can enthrone there.
When Yah came down to Abram in Nephesh form,
was He on that spot on the earth only? not likely!
From the verses earlier it is clear Angels do not know what God knows and Gabriel, an angel merely delivers God's words to prophets.The Quran is a Book of God's words and proofs are abundant that it is God's words not Gabriel' ,satan's or from orther creations.
Now , Psalm 19:6 (King James Version ,21 st century version ,American Standard Version )
"(His ) going forth is from the end of the heaven and (his ) circuit into the ends of it…"
This bible is not talking about the sun…
Psalm 19:6 ( The Message )
"That's how God 's words vaults ………
It is not talking about the sun either.
Now these bibles are talking about the sun,
Psalm 19:6 (New living translation )
The sun rises at one end of the heavens and follows its course to the other end ……….
Psalm 19:6 ( New International version )
It rises at one end and makes its circuit to the other…..
So, Mr Christos, WHICH bible are you referring to?
To say it is comparable is quite not correct, because it does not say about the the changing of days into nights and the moon.
You are a bad context reader mr.Othman: read Ps 19:4-6.
Well, sun akin to bridegroom,But still no connection with the coming of day and night and the moon has its own orbit.
In other words, Quran does not copy and does not reconstruct from the bible.( that particular verse concerning sun, moon and orbits in motion )
circumvent all you want,
you are discussing the scientific proof or the copy/reconstruction.
the text is not a copy but a reconstruction,
biblical and quranical texts wont make it as science text-books.
Mr Christos,
A reconstruction of what? That the sun is akin to a bridegroom and it rises from the end of the heavens and follows its course to the other end?
The Quran says it plainly that the sun and moon follow their orbits and these orbits are in motion to a designated place."
Well maybe the original and authentic bible says that but unfortunately where is it ? That's the problem when we do not have memorisers.
Why are you searching explanations for things that are clear
in order to ignore the bigger things that you can't?
Mr Christ
It is clear that god's throne is on the circle?
Mr Christos,
Quran is not a science textbook but whatever science discovered with ample proof is compatible with with text of the Quran,There are millions of things science has not discovered for God has only revealed a miniscule portion of what knowledge is.
The Prophet (pbuh ) in a gist of his sayings " even if all the water of all the seas and oceans are used up as ink, the knowledge written is only a very small tip of God's knowledge revealed.
Compatible with science depends on what the science is.
concerning the limits of our knowledge we agree.
The quran contains statements (true and untrue) but can't be totally
YHWH's word. Bible contains more divine scriptures than any other
book but is not totally YHWH's word either.
Mr Christos,
You say "The quran contains statements (true and untrue) but can't be totally "
Care to tell me which are untrue?/
Surah 2;192 "because persecution is worse than killing/slaughter"
194 "fight them till there is no more persecution and the religion becomes for allah
only"
195 "he who treates you with agression repay him the same he has done to you"
3 texts that are not according YHWH's word. others:
175 "allah will not speak to them on the day of the resurrection""
150 "turn your face to the holy mosque"
160 "allah curses them and they who have the right to curse curse them too"
133 " therefor die not unless you are muslim"
66 " we said to them: be despicable apes"
61 "and 12 wells sprang up"
54 "and than we gave moses the book"
believe me there are too many.
Mr Christos,
I expected those verses to be quoted as they have been quoted by Christians for ages.
You said " 3 texts that are not according to YHWH's word'
Now, as with others like Father Boutros, you tend to gauge the truthfulness of the Quranic text against the Bible's verses. Because, the Quran does not copy or reconstruct from whatever remains of the original bible, as proven with verses relating to sun and moon's orbits in motion, that yardstick is not acceptable and wrong.I think you are also applying the same methodology vis a vis the other Quranic verses stated. In short , if they are not the same as the Bible , they are untrue, which is a flawed methodology and assumption.
I would have expected you to measure the truthfulness of the messages in the Quranic verses against well established universal principles of fairplay and justice , which are what religions as guidance to mankind are all about.Quran is just about those values.
With due respect, if the yardstick is a mixture of divine words, narrations from humans third party and unknown and with some human sexual exploits connotationsi.e the present bible , that to me is not wholly a book from God,Hence,it cannot be a judge on Quran–the word from God Almighty.
Regards.
Without the H.S. you can't comprehend nothing of the Word of YHWH, sorry you can't separate Word and Spirit.
fairplay and justice will/can only be found in the coming Millennium,
you got to live with that my dear mr. Othman.
You can wait for your Millennium.I have my Quran, Ahadiths to guide me towards that.
quran and hadith for fairplay and justice?
i don't think so!
sharia law as well as mosaic law are outdated.
Also your pick and choose answering does not
give the impression of fairplay either.
Quran is God' words.
Bible contain God's words , narrations on Jesus (pbuh ) and words of unknown (others )
It is a portpourri (mixed ) and the way to find out which are genuine and which are not is through
the test that the verses in the bible itself do not contradict each other.If there are con tradictions the genuiness and truth is gauged against what is in the Quran.But even if they do not contradict each other but they contradict the Quran , they are deemed not authentic,
Regards.
You take the quran as the authentic word of allah, which is impossible;
the angelic transmission has contaminations on purpose.
Bible contains the Word of YHWH.
it does not matter to find out all things to be authentic
one should do the authentic things; be a doer not a hearer only.
the bible is clear enough about what one should do and not.
everyone is free to follow it or not.
Greetings Messrs Christos,Godfear and Abiero,
Today I am celebrating the end of a one month long fasting and celebrate by responding to Mr Christos's comment;
word of allah, which is impossible———- why impossible?
angelic transmission has contaminations on purpose. ———give examples and reasons-is it because Gabriel is not one's favourite angel?
Bible contains the Word of YHWH. ———–even if there contradictions within? surely God is not that imperfect!
it does not matter to find out all things to be authentic — word of God is perfect and authentic and never otherwise.HE set that standard.
One need discernment through the Spirit when reading religious scripture,
without it one can't decipher it correctly nor convey it properly.
Sorry, the quran is imperfect just as the earthly Bible.
You don't read the quran well and you accept it all blindly
you read the Bible and you can't read it.
You don't have the H S.
so what can you tell?
Mr Christos,
Can I say you do not have a book but you tried to use a book?
The bible is the book and we can use it, you can't, if you are a muslim you can't
comprehend unless you repent.
Repent to what, Mr Christos?
For NOT degrading and sullying HIm ,I should repent then I will not "repent ".
All men/women are sinners and are imperfect in the sight of YHWH,
one should repent and turn to the LivingYHWH through YHM and be filled
with the Ruach under the Kabod.
Mr Christos,
On matters concerning who to pray to, I want direct instruction, no frills no philosophies.I say I want because I am a man created as a God's vicegerent on earth.I want to ensure I do not pray to other man like me, Jinns, angels and the devil.or other creations.
Quran 20: 14,Allah said:
"'vERILY I AM GOD .THERE IS NO OTHER GOD BUT I.
WORSHIP ME ONLY,
ESTABLISH REGULAR PRAYER CELEBRATING MY PRAISE.'"
Did Jesus say like this? No.Because he is not god.He does not want his disciples to pray to him.It was Paul who wanted Jesus's followers to regard Jesus as god.The Unitarians objected to this.The Jews objected to this. Was Paul in the OT prophesy? Paul or Saul (Hebrew ) does not sound like Mohameddim.
Paul championed the gentile's cause against arrogance of Jews (Pharisees and all ) Pauline idealogy is a vehicle to get the Gentiles behind him More of a political than religious movement?